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Thread: Mashers / Moabs

  1. #1
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    Mashers / Moabs

    I was about to order a set of 4 Moabs for my Jato for increasing clearance and improving traction on rough terrain. Then, I thought Masher 2000’s at rear and Moabs up front could provide better traction and more steering stability than Moabs at all corners. Did anyone try this?

    I had used Masher 2000’s on my HPI Nitro MT. They provided HUGE traction but I have not yet tried Moabs on any car. Would you like to comment on the possible outcome of mixing these two giant tires on the Jato?

  2. #2
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    i use the 4 moabs and i get well traction
    |zRad^|
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    -HoBao Hyper 9 PRo^

  3. #3
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    I have M2K's all around and it's tons better than stock. I can pretty much go on any terrain. I like them alot.

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    This is for those who are interested in off-road bashing tires so don’t waste your time for reading if you are not one of them.

    My rear M3 Gladiators and front M2 Blades were great when the surface of the somewhat rough off-road terrain was moist but once it dried out completely, I lost traction (nothing but wheel spin) and steering (nothing but push). I installed 2.2” Masher 2000 rears and Moab fronts with the hope of re-gaining traction and steering on very dry soil (so dry that it was cracked). I duck taped the tires from inside.

    I couldn’t have dreamed of better traction and steering. More importantly, I couldn’t imagine a better balance between the two. HUGE traction yet no traction rolls despite the additional ground clearance. It felt like I have a “side bite control dial” on my Tx. The tires give up just when a traction roll would happen and they slide very controllably, just enough to prevent flipping. I feel, w/o evidence, that 4 Moab’s would result in a little tail happiness and 4 Mashers would cause occasional flip over’s as the Mashers seem to offer more side bite, as well as more forward traction.

    I used these giant tires with exactly the same suspension and steering setups that I had dialled in for the Gladiator M3 / Blade M2 combination. Therefore, my Jato gained exceptional versatility by way of a tire change and a spur/pinion swap.

    Don’t get me wrong. There is no doubt that these giant tires will create traction rolls when the soil offers a little more traction. Then, I will simply change my tires and pinion/spur gears for an almost automatic traction/steering restoration. I wonder how they will work when the soil is muddy. It seems like traction wouldn’t be bad but steering may suffer, perhaps, if the mud is too slippery. 4 Mashers could perhaps be better on slippery mud. I think I will know how the Masher / Moab combination will work on mud by November or so. I can update if you are interested in.

    Their downside is that they highlight a weakness of the Jato. Since the Masher 2K’s convey the torque of the TRX 2.5 to the ground effectively, instead of spinning over the soil, the drive shafts must also convey the same torque. The plastic ones simply can not. When my Jato was immobilized after 5 tanks of great fun, all the yokes were twisted by about ⅛ turns! The holes where the universal joint fits were brutally elongated and one of them was torn apart, letting the shaft snap.

    It is clear that the optional steel drive shafts are a must, when the drive train is subject to the torque of the engine. The Masher 2K tires do exactly this on rough terrain. Whatever torque the TRX 2.5 has is conveyed to the ground and the Moab’s are capable of steering this.

  5. #5
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    I have awesome success with 4 moabs... I run em on street and grass.. I want a little wider patcch on grass, but I go from street to grass at about 40 and these work awesome... I use a 58 spur and tape the 4 tires.... I have really been looking into the new stampede wheels and tires for the wider footprint, but my moabs just plain rock.... Agreed about the drive shafts tho... I spun my stock ones off, but the steel CVD's fixed that amazingly well...

  6. #6
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    How about HPI'S Yokohama Geolandar tires, tried them? Not quite as tall as Moab's. I'm thinking about getting a set, anyone tried them?

  7. #7
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    I have Geolanders on my Jato and I really like them. I had to change to 20-56 gearing to match the gearing with the stock tires.
    Original Maxx with RPM wide arms, big bore shocks and 2.5R, Revo with P2's and stock Jato

  8. #8
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    We don't disagree on Moab's, Ozydego. I didn't run neither Moab’s nor 2K’s on street and grass so I don’t know how they would compare.

    If you need wider footprints, you could consider the 2K's. They have larger and flatter footprints than the Moab’s. Their shoulder corners are sharper. Altogether, they have a more aggressive thread pattern. They are a little heavier, though.

    My Jato will remain immobile until these shafts arrive at Tower. BTW, a little off-topic but do you happen to know if the below have 2 boots per shaft or only on the outer joint as the pic implies? The part number is the same as the ones with double boots at the Traxxas site:

    http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXKMM0&P=0

    Thanks

    P.S: I am running 18/58 with the 2K's at rear.
    Last edited by Bucur; 08-24-2006 at 01:28 PM.

  9. #9
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    I had all 4 geolanders and i wasnt really happy with the performence on rough terrain, my 4 dirt hawgs worked out better. My next set is paddles

  10. #10
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    has any one thought of trying the new stampede (revo spec) tires?? I am ready to make my 3.3 j off road to use on my track and was wondering

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    I believe both sets come with 4 boots.... but mine were built from the factory... As far as the Stampede Revo tread tires, I really want a set... I am waiting tho until I wear out my moabs... I'm finally getting there running street to grass and back.... man its fun to hit the grass at 50 and not loose a bit of speed

  12. #12
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    i'm ok with my HPI'S Yokohama. those last ok, good traction

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bucur
    BTW, a little off-topic but do you happen to know if the below have 2 boots per shaft or only on the outer joint as the pic implies? The part number is the same as the ones with double boots at the Traxxas site:

    http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXKMM0&P=0

    Thanks

    P.S: I am running 18/58 with the 2K's at rear.
    mine had 2 boots per driveshaft. the ones shown in the picture cover over the universal joint thing closest to the wheel. there is another one which covers the universal join closest to the diff thats not shown.

  14. #14
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    Thanks, Ozydego and Cholyoake. I think the picture is misleading. I believe the shafts will come assembled and each will have 2 booths but they are out of stock everywhere, including Traxxas. I eventually found them after hours of internet surfing, though.

  15. #15
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    I have the stampede's on my rears...one word...awesome.
    http://www.picburst.com/uploads/9bbe814a9f.jpg

    The 3.3 is definately up to the task of the larger diameter and wider tires
    Last edited by rb_monster; 08-26-2006 at 11:14 PM.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by rb_monster

    The 3.3 is definately up to the task of the larger diameter and wider tires
    Absolutely! Even the 2.5 is more than up to the same task. However, the stock shafts are not. I will get the optional steel ones within a week or so. I hope they are up to this task. Then, I will hope that the transmission and diff gears are.

  17. #17
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    i am planning to do this. I read elswhere that you should gear down to protect the motor when you upsize the rims... true?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bloomk
    i am planning to do this. I read elswhere that you should gear down to protect the motor when you upsize the rims... true?
    True.

    For Jato 2.5 with 54/22 stock spur/pinion and stock Victory tires rollout (distance travelled with one revolution of the crank shaft) is 1.41. If you install Masher 2K tires with the same gears, rollout would be 1.76. This is significantly more than stock.

    With Masher 2K tires; 58/18 spur/pinion gives a rollout of 1.34. This is fairly close to the stock rollout of 1.41. You can use 58/18 with Moabs as well.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bucur
    True.

    For Jato 2.5 with 54/22 stock spur/pinion and stock Victory tires rollout (distance travelled with one revolution of the crank shaft) is 1.41”. If you install Masher 2K tires with the same gears, rollout would be 1.76”. This is significantly more than stock.

    With Masher 2K tires; 58/18 spur/pinion gives a rollout of 1.34”. This is fairly close to the stock rollout of 1.41”. You can use 58/18 with Moabs as well.

    Bucur,

    I need some advise...I tried moabs with a 54/20 and it seems like no matter what I do, i can't get it to shift. Is it that the cb is too small to get the rpms high enough to engage the second gear? Is it that my spur was too small? I changed the shift point back and forth for hours and no luck...i ultimately tore it down and rebuilt it to make sure i hadn't backed the set screw out too much. So it's stock now.

    Also...if I tighten the clutch will this help me get the rpms back up to par??
    I put the 22cb back on with the 54 spur...don't know if it's gonna work but for now, the moabs went in the toolbox and the old victory sets are back on my offroad jato which is a shame because i love the moabs.

    An if it's neither, do you have any ideas?

    I actually thought at one point it was shifting, but when i checked the onboard, it was still WAY to slow to be in second. I have more than a 1/4 mile of flat asphalt to get to speed and I could hear it peaking in 1st, but it just wouldn't engage second. The engine was broken in per traxxas specs...tuned just right..It's got a little over a quart of fuel on the 3.3 in there.

    You really seem to know your setups so i thought I'd get an expert's advise.
    I would have pm'd you, but i think the message would have been too long.
    Any help is greatly appreciated. -take care.
    Last edited by jato75; 09-13-2006 at 12:01 PM.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bucur
    True.

    For Jato 2.5 with 54/22 stock spur/pinion and stock Victory tires rollout (distance travelled with one revolution of the crank shaft) is 1.41. If you install Masher 2K tires with the same gears, rollout would be 1.76. This is significantly more than stock.

    With Masher 2K tires; 58/18 spur/pinion gives a rollout of 1.34. This is fairly close to the stock rollout of 1.41. You can use 58/18 with Moabs as well.

    I am also curious of the proper gearing for using the electric stampede wheels/tires (2.8 talons)

  21. #21
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    can't comment on the 2.5, but the 3.3 does not need re-gearing, it's up to the task and stop those annoying wheelies on the street. If you like wheelies...gear down 2 teeth on the clutch bell

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by rb_monster
    can't comment on the 2.5, but the 3.3 does not need re-gearing, it's up to the task and stop those annoying wheelies on the street. If you like wheelies...gear down 2 teeth on the clutch bell

    are you talking about using the moabs with stock gearing? It still shifted?
    hmmmm.....Bucur can you explain this to me...i thought with larger tires there had to be compensation in the gearing to allow the larger diameter tire....now I'm lost.

  23. #23
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    you should use gearing to allow for the larger tire, for the performance to be the same. but what rb_monster is saying is the 3.3 is so powerfull it dosent matter (just commenting on the power of the 3.3)

  24. #24
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    Thanks for your kind words. I have experience with nitro RC cars but I am not an expert. Anyway, I can try to help:

    1. It is not surprising that it doesn’t shift with Moab tires and 54/20. Mine didn’t shift even with 58/18. BTW, the shorter the spur/pinion ratio, the earlier it will shift. 54/20 = 2.7. This is taller than 58/18 = 3.22.

    2. The reason why mine didn’t shift even with 3.22 spur/pinion ratio is because; having the same rollout with a larger diameter tire means that the spur gear (thus the main shaft of the transmission, thus the shifter) is rotating slower at a given forward speed, than it would with a smaller diameter tire giving the same rollout. In other words, the engine fall short of RPM before the shifter reaches the RPM at which it shifts, despite the fact that the car runs at the same speed in both cases.

    3. You seem to have the following alternatives:

    a. You can go shorter like 58/16. This would reduce rollout (you would have better acceleration and slower top speed). This means earlier shifts than 58/18 but I can not say if this would be sufficient for shifting before reaching the top speed attainable at first gear. You would need to try. If doesn’t shift, you will have to adjust the shifter, anyway.

    b. You can gear 58/18 and adjust the shifter (CCW from stock, not back and forth). I will do so after Friday, when I will get hold of my new steel drive shafts so that my Jato runs again.

    c. You can wait until I make mine shift with 58/18 and Masher 2K’s and tell you how much I adjusted my shifter CCW from stock. I can not promise the day, though. The week-end may be rainy so I may have to postpone this.

    Assuming that you are referring to the slipper clutch, if it is actually slipping at high revs, tightening it would make your Jato shift earlier. If it is not slipping when your Jato should have shifted, tightening it would not affect shift timing. An unnecessarily tight slipper clutch is not safe for your drive train and transmission, though. I am using my Jato 2.5 at 7/8 turns out from fully tight, w/o slippage due to engine power alone, but your conditions and how much your pads are worn, etc., would make a difference. 3.3 power certainly will. Don’t tighten it any more than just enough for preventing slippage due to engine power. Less than that is OK when racing but racers don’t have 2-sped transmissions.

    What onboard are you referring to? If this is an on board speedometer, you can’t rely on it more than on your ears for hearing your Jato shift. Besides needing meticulous calibration and re-calibration after ANY change in rollout, it will mislead you whenever any one of your rear tires spin.

    I hope this was of some help. Let us know what happens. Good luck!

  25. #25
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    Further to my post #24, 3.3 power will make a difference in making something slip but what matters is the RPM at which the shifter rotates.

    Since 3.3 owners seem to have more shifting related problems, I wonder if slipper clutch slippage may be an issue. Could it be that the 3.3 is creating more torque than the slipper can handle w/o slipping?

    Is the slipper clutch of the Revo 3.3 the same or more powerful? Does it have the same spring or a stiffer one?

    BTW Jato 75, Rb Monster and Cholyoake are right. The setups of my Jato 2.5 would not be an example for your 3.3. The principles, rollout and gear ratio calculations are the same but the setups would not be.

  26. #26
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    I have a jato 3.3 and my wife has an electrict stampede (both the latest models) so i tried her stampede wheels on the rear of the jato and....... Holy ****... This thing drives like a bat outa ****... and runs well on all surfaces (grass, dirt, pavement,etc)... It shifts a little late as you'd expect buti can fix that. Only gripe is that the stampede tires baloon pretty bad so it looks like taping may be required... but WOW... don't think i'll use any other tire/wheel combo any more...

  27. #27
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    yeah they rule...very wide tire contact patch, compared to anything else we run. I bought 4 of a new stampede as well...2 are on my 3.3 and I am actually selling the spare 2 on ebay (to fund a dual chamber pipe)....if anyone is interested my ebay id is dmanb2b.

  28. #28
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    Thanks a million, Bucur...it's really good to know there are still good people out there willing to take the time out to help the newer nitro guys.


    it's raining here in the eastern U.S. like cats and dogs, so i think maybe early next week might be the earliest test date. So you might get to test it out before I do. Let me know what happens with your shift point if that's the case....Again...thanks for the help.

  29. #29
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    Hi rb monster, I could see on your picture that you keeped your anacondas on the front with the talons on the rear. Do the anacondas go well with the talons on the dirt ? The car doesn't understeer ? What about putting 4 talons on it ? I 've also got a jato 3.3 and I want a configuration for asphalt, grass and dirt.
    And one last thing, I don't understand how you tape the tires to avoid ballooning (there is some foam inside, do you tape on the foam ?!?), could you explain it and/or show me pictures plz ? Thanks,

  30. #30
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    the anaondas hook up fairly well, but you could also buy talons for the front which would somewhat remedy understeer...either way with a 3.3 your going to understeer...since the fronts barely touch the ground under throttle


    Seach on taping tires...there is a pretty good writeup on this forum

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    my talons for sale mounted only fit on the rear though

  32. #32
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    Thanks rb monster, in fact I live in reunion island, in the indian ocean, a little far for buying your talons...I think talons in the front too would be great as they are heavier than the anacondas and so will let the front in contact with the ground more than the anacondas. And I think it will also be better for the look. I hope stock gearing will accept 4 talons with a 3.3, what do you think ?

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by jato75
    Thanks a million, Bucur...it's really good to know there are still good people out there willing to take the time out to help the newer nitro guys.


    it's raining here in the eastern U.S. like cats and dogs, so i think maybe early next week might be the earliest test date. So you might get to test it out before I do. Let me know what happens with your shift point if that's the case....Again...thanks for the help.
    It is so nice to hear that I was able to be of help. At this end, weather forecasts for the week-end are not bad. I will post how my Jato 2.5 responds to shift adjustments with large diameter tires.

  34. #34
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    here is a pic of my jato with the 2.8 talons on the front and back...







    and yes they give really good traction and it seems more controllable in the air , i love them

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    yeeesssss rcboy514, I saw your video in another thread, and it seemed to me you had 4 talons but I wasn't sure because the video is so small. It's a great video, indeed, your jato seems very stable in the air. Do you have the stock gearing with your 4 talons, have you tried to go faster to see if it's still ok ? You should do another video with a better quality...

  36. #36
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    whats up.new at this but I used the masher 2k on the 2.8rims and the 2.2foam and I geared my jato with the 58spur , 20clutchbell and ajust the shift point and it has a pretty good take off. Does good in grass,dart,or chat.

    p.s. u all give some killer onfo. good work.

  37. #37
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    some time bad at spelling, but how do u post pic.

  38. #38
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    I have Masher 2000's on 2.2's they need atleast a 58/20 that's what I have right now with a stock 2.5 works well however it does need heavier front tires I have proline blade's on the front and it under steers all the time and cat walks all the time I would recommend that unless you have heavier tires on the front then tape a weight like a small bolt or something to the inside front under the body. I had my camera taped to the front and it worked well.

  39. #39
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    dont no what u r talking about with the moabs not shifting i slapped mine on and it shifted sooner than the stock tires cause they didnt slide out the hooked up really good btw got them at all corners

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    I made an outing today but unfortunately, I couldn’t go to a place with a long straight for checking the gear shift. I hope to do so within a few days. I will post as soon as I do.

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