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  1. #1
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    Need slightly larger motor for higher speeds.

    G'Day, I am now running my 3.3 Jato with a 20T clutch bell and 36T spur gear ( Revo gears).

    The problem I am having is the 3.3 doesn't seem to be able to qiuet reach the high revs that it did with the 24T/54T gearing.
    I was thinking of installing the dual chamber exhust but not sure if this will give enough extra power to get to the top revs.

    I would like to run a 20T clutch bell and a 34T spur.

    So the question is, For all the people out there that are running very tall gears what motors are you running in your Jato?.
    The 3.3 is good but i think I will nedd a slightly larger motor that will rev up to at least 40,000rpm or more to run these higher gears.

    Any info appreciated.
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  2. #2
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    If your running a higher gears then it will take longer to get to 40 000 rpm. I would say you would need a smaller motor with more power so you get more revs. Like the O.S 18 tm.
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  3. #3
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    I don't care if you have an EB mods OS TZ, or TM....neither one of these engines will be able to use the ratio you want to use....neither will a ninja .21 for that matter. i know people who have tried each of these engines with this ratio, and it's just not gonna work well.......It has nothing to do with the engine's power or rpm's either.

    here's what the problem is:

    there isn't enough rotating mass in that spur to make it do much of anything for your engine but whine and bog...why?? not enough rotating mass...that's why a larger rotating mass is going to give better performance, in small numbers....here's a good ex:38/19 is a 2/1 ratio.
    however so is 54/27....the rotating mass in the larger gear will be easier for the engine to utilize than the the 38 because of the size, it dosen't have to work as hard....Period. The revo 36 is just too small for just about any engine. so try it yourself...put a 36t revo spur against a 54...see the difference?? it's huge.

    it works in the Revo simply because the internal gear ratio is more than TWO times that of a Jato.

    on paper, you should be able to gear the jato with revo gearing to an extreme 36/20 or a ratio of 1.8......but it dosen't work well ....why? again...because of the rotating mass of the spur...it's too small.

    now take my gearing....i have a 53/40 or a 58/40 a ratio of 1.32, or 1.45 it's technically alot lower of a ratio, but it dosen't bog the engine at all...why? rotating mass.

    BTW, if i can get to use a 40t clutchbell and still build speed from a 3.3,(or you can take Plumgone's single speed 76mph rustler 54/40 gear combo because i don't have mine on video)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lq6t0_J545c


    then it's not lack of rpm's. Besides a 3.3 has argueably more peak RPM's than both these engines....just on a different curve.

    you don't need a bigger engine..you need bigger gears.

    take care.
    Last edited by jato75; 01-27-2007 at 06:42 PM.

  4. #4
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    Thanks for the advice, appreciated.
    Never thought of the rataing mass of the clutch bell.

    Any idea where I can get these 40T clutch bells for the Jato?

    With your gearing of 53/40 or a 58/40, are you running the 3.3 motor and dual chamber pipe?

    Thanks again.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluesilver
    Thanks for the advice, appreciated.
    Never thought of the rataing mass of the clutch bell.

    Any idea where I can get these 40T clutch bells for the Jato?

    With your gearing of 53/40 or a 58/40, are you running the 3.3 motor and dual chamber pipe?

    Thanks again.
    Both mine and Plumgone's clutchbells are custom made, so i think their about the only ones that exist.
    Yes, I'm running a tnt modded 3.3 and a dual resonator pipe.

    here's my 40t cb thread:

    http://monster.traxxas.com/showthread.php?t=348707

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by jato75
    I don't care if you have an EB mods OS TZ, or TM....neither one of these engines will be able to use the ratio you want to use....neither will a ninja .21 for that matter. i know people who have tried each of these engines with this ratio, and it's just not gonna work well.......It has nothing to do with the engine's power or rpm's either.

    here's what the problem is:

    there isn't enough rotating mass in that spur to make it do much of anything for your engine but whine and bog...why?? not enough rotating mass...that's why a larger rotating mass is going to give better performance, in small numbers....here's a good ex:38/19 is a 2/1 ratio.
    however so is 54/27....the rotating mass in the larger gear will be easier for the engine to utilize than the the 38 because of the size, it dosen't have to work as hard....Period. The revo 36 is just too small for just about any engine. so try it yourself...put a 36t revo spur against a 54...see the difference?? it's huge.

    it works in the Revo simply because the internal gear ratio is more than TWO times that of a Jato.

    on paper, you should be able to gear the jato with revo gearing to an extreme 36/20 or a ratio of 1.8......but it dosen't work well ....why? again...because of the rotating mass of the spur...it's too small.

    now take my gearing....i have a 53/40 or a 58/40 a ratio of 1.32, or 1.45 it's technically alot lower of a ratio, but it dosen't bog the engine at all...why? rotating mass.

    BTW, if i can get to use a 40t clutchbell and still build speed from a 3.3,(or you can take Plumgone's single speed 76mph rustler 54/40 gear combo because i don't have mine on video)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lq6t0_J545c


    then it's not lack of rpm's. Besides a 3.3 has argueably more peak RPM's than both these engines....just on a different curve.

    you don't need a bigger engine..you need bigger gears.

    take care.
    Bro... more rotating mass will slow down the performance of all engines, this is one of the reasons to go with a FOC in a revo or maxx. Less mass = better performance, faster exceleration and possibly top speed... and a 3.3 does not have the peak rpms of a OS.18tm or tz

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by filmmaker
    Bro... more rotating mass will slow down the performance of all engines, this is one of the reasons to go with a FOC in a revo or maxx. Less mass = better performance, faster exceleration and possibly top speed... and a 3.3 does not have the peak rpms of a OS.18tm or tz
    you're wrong, but i'm not going to debate this with you. go buy a TM or a TZ and throw a 36/20 in it(in a jato) and i'll tell you why it dosen't work... AGAIN.

    it works on the same basic principles of tires... 2 tires of the same weight but different size. the larger tires cover more distance, thus it will go faster...the engine dosen't have to work as hard on the larger tires as long as their the same weight..

    same here. sorry bro. I've already proven this 10 times over.

    and the 3.3 absolutely DOES have more peak rpm's than both the TZ and TM...the 3.3 just dosen't have as much torque.
    Last edited by jato75; 01-27-2007 at 11:46 PM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by jato75
    you're wrong, but i'm not going to debate this with you. go buy a TM or a TZ and throw a 36/20 in it(in a jato) and i'll tell you why it dosen't work... AGAIN.

    it works on the same basic principles of tires... 2 tires of the same weight but different size. the larger tires cover more distance, thus it will go faster...the engine dosen't have to work as hard on the larger tires as long as their the same weight..

    same here. sorry bro. I've already proven this 10 times over.

    and the 3.3 absolutely DOES have more peak rpm's than both the TZ and TM...the 3.3 just dosen't have as much torque.
    What, the reason a joto will go faster with bigger tires that weigh the same is because they change the overal ratio... hello...

  9. #9
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    ran on the same dyno.....
    Traxxas TRX 3.3 Pullstart 1.06 @ 31,250 rpm 37.49 oz-in @ 19,500 rpm 37,750 rpm w/ kit $152
    O.S. .18 TZ-T 1.18 @ 29,400 rpm 44.16 oz-in @ 21,750 rpm 42,050 rpm OSMG2114 $180
    hp @ rpm, torque @ rpm, and peak rpm....

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by filmmaker
    What, the reason a joto will go faster with bigger tires that weigh the same is because they change the overal ratio... hello...

    I wasn't talking about changing the gearing i was talking about the fact that a larger gear rotation is easier for the engine to utilize then a smaller one.
    I can't explain it any simplier than that.

    here's the TZ specs straight from OS...and here's the 3.3's specs...
    I was right...the TZ has more torque, but not as many Rpm's.

    O.S. TZ (from the OS website)
    Displacement: 0.183 cu in (3.0 cc)
    Bore: 0.629 in (16.0 mm)
    Stroke: 0.590 in (15.0 mm)
    Practical RPM: 3000-34,000
    Output: 1.8 hp @ 29,000 rpm
    Weight (OSMG2110, OSMG2111, OSMG2114): 7.8 oz (222 g)
    Weight (OSMG2113): 9.3 oz (264 g)
    Includes: 11K slide-valve or 11L rotary carb, P3 turbo plug


    the TRX 3.3 (from X-Treme RC cars)

    Displacement:.20 in
    Bore: 14.7mm
    Stroke:16.9mm
    Practical RPM: 3000-37,750
    Output: .97@ 32,500

  11. #11
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    not done on a prop dyno that is inaccrate, but crank dyno..

  12. #12
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    Practical is not peak... and changing to a larger tire does effect gearing...

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by filmmaker
    not done on a prop dyno that is inaccrate, but crank dyno..

    those were done straight from OS i believe them.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by filmmaker
    Practical is not peak... and changing to a larger tire does effect gearing...

    i never said it was, and i never said it didn't ...larger diameter gears are easier for the engine to utilize...that's all.

  15. #15
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    Both numbers you posted were done on different dynos in different conditions. the ones I posted were run on the same dyno several times to get max power and same conditions, to get accurate results.. the more weight an engine has to pull like gearing or tires that weigh more than stock tires it is harder for the engine to get up to speed....

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by jato75

    it works on the same basic principles of tires... 2 tires of the same weight but different size. the larger tires cover more distance, thus it will go faster...the engine dosen't have to work as hard on the larger tires as long as their the same weight..

    same here. sorry bro. I've already proven this 10 times over.

    and the 3.3 absolutely DOES have more peak rpm's than both the TZ and TM...the 3.3 just dosen't have as much torque.
    you said it will go faster.... taller tires change the gearing with out changing gears..... this is why NHRA dragsters has tires that grow, this gives them greater top speed without changing gearing... faster out of the hole with smaller tires and as they grow they pick up taller speeds....

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by filmmaker
    Both numbers you posted were done on different dynos in different conditions. the ones I posted were run on the same dyno several times to get max power and same conditions, to get accurate results.. the more weight an engine has to pull like gearing or tires that weigh more than stock tires it is harder for the engine to get up to speed....

    Quote Originally Posted by filmmaker
    Both numbers you posted were done on different dynos in different conditions. the ones I posted were run on the same dyno several times to get max power and same conditions, to get accurate results.. ....
    I believe published reports before i believe a member's posts. sorry.


    Quote Originally Posted by filmmaker
    the more weight an engine has to pull like gearing or tires that weigh more than stock tires it is harder for the engine to get up to speed.......
    1. the engine isn't pulling the gears.
    2. it's rotating from the engine
    3. the tire weight does effect the gearing and speed, but i told you we were talking about 2 things of the same weight but larger mass.

  18. #18
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    Bro, I think the reason that your Jato flies, is that you have it dialed in so good...

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by filmmaker
    Bro, I think the reason that your Jato flies, is that you have it dialed in so good...
    well, i can't argue there. LOL

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by jato75
    I believe published reports before i believe a member's posts. sorry.




    1. the engine isn't pulling the gears.
    2. it's rotating from the engine
    3. the tire weight does effect the gearing and speed, but i told you we were talking about 2 things of the same weight but larger mass.
    this is the dyno....
    http://www.nitrodynesystems.com/
    they have some graphs to look at..... and these are some numbers...
    http://www.hpisavageforum.com/forums...ead.php?t=1419
    all runs were done to get max performance from the engines tested and they were run several times to find the peak numbers using good pipes good fuel etc. etc..
    the engine does pull or spin the gears, the more weight the harder it is for the motor to spin.
    larger tires = higher speeds...

  21. #21
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    I've built a couple hot rods. One for the 1/4 and one for road racing. I had a heavy flywheel in the 1/4 mile car that helped to launch the car and the road racer had a light flywheel to help the motor rev as I raced around the corners...

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by filmmaker
    this is the dyno....
    http://www.nitrodynesystems.com/
    they have some graphs to look at..... and these are some numbers...
    http://www.hpisavageforum.com/forums...ead.php?t=1419
    all runs were done to get max performance from the engines tested and they were run several times to find the peak numbers using good pipes good fuel etc. etc..
    the engine does pull or spin the gears, the more weight the harder it is for the motor to spin.
    larger tires = higher speeds...
    but we're not talking about more weight, bro!! AGGGHHH~!!!

    we're talking about 2 gears. both weigh let's say 1 oz. the larger gear is going to be easier for the engine to gain momentum...that's all i'm saying.

    not weight. diameter size.

    and i still believe os and xtreme over those. but look, we can agree to disagree. It's why we all have opinions.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by jato75
    but we're not talking about more weight, bro!! AGGGHHH~!!!

    we're talking about 2 gears. both weigh let's say 1 oz. the larger gear is going to be easier for the engine to gain momentum...that's all i'm saying.

    not weight. diameter size.

    and i still believe os and xtreme over those. but look, we can agree to disagree. It's why we all have opinions.
    well ???
    the numbers you posted were on different dynos so it is hard to compare numbers that were run on two totally different dynos, inaccurate. And they used prop dynos that are inaccurate. the dyno I sent was a crank dyno that is most accurate...

  24. #24
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    and on the same machine...... no difference upon its self....

  25. #25
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    later bro.... its late...

  26. #26
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    again, that's why the good Lord blessed us all with opinions....we all have a right to them. we can agree to disagree. cya

  27. #27
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    Blue Silver if you want more speed get the 18TZ, everyone hear knows that RC Car action can be taken at their word for any research it does on any rc product on the market.......here is the review on the tz that was done by the former editor of RC Car action Steve Pond, if you read it carefully you will find that the 18tz not only produces over 80 oz's of torque, it also pumps out 2.28 ponies..... far from any trx motor to date and it can also rev to 42,000 rpm's under load. Read for yourself ...........http://www.osengines.com/reviews/osm...st-rcnitro.pdf

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by outlaw4-Tec
    Blue Silver if you want more speed get the 18TZ, everyone hear knows that RC Car action can be taken at their word for any research it does on any rc product on the market.......here is the review on the tz that was done by the former editor of RC Car action Steve Pond, if you read it carefully you will find that the 18tz not only produces over 80 oz's of torque, it also pumps out 2.28 ponies..... far from any trx motor to date and it can also rev to 42,000 rpm's under load. Read for yourself ...........http://www.osengines.com/reviews/osm...st-rcnitro.pdf
    yeah, the tz might pump out 2.28 ponies, but it dosen't have the displacement the 3.3 has. and if you want rpm's straight from Traxxas mouth here:
    http://monster.traxxas.com/showthread.php?t=351446

    so, i give respect to the TZ, but you really should stop talking like the 3.3 is such a far cry behind it because it's not.

    The fact is, both these engines are so close, it's hard to tell which one is better or faster. I know you love O.S., and I've even ordered an EB mod, to see for myself, but I've walked TZ's with my 3.3...before my mod.
    It comes down to better tuning, better gearing, better set up, better pipes, and a ton of other factors.

    so there. (that was joking, outlaw, take it with a grain of salt.)

  29. #29
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    I was at the LHS the other day and he had a 38T clutch bell in a package.

    I ill go back on Tues and see what exactly it was.

    might help out the BB Jato guys..
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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by N30N
    I was at the LHS the other day and he had a 38T clutch bell in a package.

    I ill go back on Tues and see what exactly it was.

    might help out the BB Jato guys..

    that would be awsome if they actually made something like that for the public..do you know who it was made by or for what vehicle????

    thing is, if you get anything abouve a 33t, there is significant chassis modification needed...you have to cut the engine mounts, mill the chassis because the gear will hit it, extend the motor holes cut the clutchguard, and modify the top plate to eliminate the mid mounted battery ...it won't fit with it in there.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by N30N
    I was at the LHS the other day and he had a 38T clutch bell in a package.

    I ill go back on Tues and see what exactly it was.

    might help out the BB Jato guys..


    I am also interested to know what brand of clutch bell this is.
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  32. #32
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    all I can remember was looking at it and thinking that I know a few guys that would totaly dig this...


    hope he still has it so I can just buy it...

    it was pretty spendy I do remember that.. I think it was like 40 bones or something like that...
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  33. #33
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    I dont mean any harm but, I've been there and done the small block thing to the max.....I even shelled out $268.00 dollars for an ebmod OS 18TZ not because I'm an OS man but, because I want own the fastest "Big Dog" out when ever I buy anything be it a toaster, tv or nitro engine. If I were an OS man I would have saved a ton of money and purchased a OS VZR .21 onroad engine for my promod car but, the OS VZR does'nt live in the same world of performance as the 35 plus, that's why I bought it. Blue Silver, If you want the "Fastest" nitro engine out period buy the Novarossi 35 plus and suck them small blocks up your intake filter and spit em' out you tuned pipe .

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by jato75
    yeah, the tz might pump out 2.28 ponies, but it dosen't have the displacement the 3.3 has. and if you want rpm's straight from Traxxas mouth here:
    http://monster.traxxas.com/showthread.php?t=351446

    so, i give respect to the TZ, but you really should stop talking like the 3.3 is such a far cry behind it because it's not.

    The fact is, both these engines are so close, it's hard to tell which one is better or faster. I know you love O.S., and I've even ordered an EB mod, to see for myself, but I've walked TZ's with my 3.3...before my mod.
    It comes down to better tuning, better gearing, better set up, better pipes, and a ton of other factors.

    so there. (that was joking, outlaw, take it with a grain of salt.)
    Come on man, read the fine print, or at least everything Nitro Chicken says... peak unloaded rpm vs usable rpm... the peak rpm is set on a stand and they let the motor rip without gears or such (no load), and usable rpm is what we would see used is our trucks (real rpm)... dude don't lead these traxxas lovers astray.... your messing with peoples minds....
    goto go I'm working on a video all day will not be back till late tonight so wait till late to night to send the hate mail....

  35. #35
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    and to top it off if a motor puts out more hp then you can gear for even greater speed,, goto go now I'm running late.....

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by filmmaker
    Come on man, read the fine print, or at least everything Nitro Chicken says... peak unloaded rpm vs usable rpm... the peak rpm is set on a stand and they let the motor rip without gears or such (no load), and usable rpm is what we would see used is our trucks (real rpm)... dude don't lead these traxxas lovers astray.... your messing with peoples minds....
    goto go I'm working on a video all day will not be back till late tonight so wait till late to night to send the hate mail....
    well, given that, and the TZ numbers, the stock TZ just dosen't have the same rpm's as the 3.3 has...be it from what Nitro Chicken said or what X-treme Rc mag said.

    Dude, you're not gonna change my mind. sorry. we can go around and around all day of you want to....
    However, if you wanna spend 400 bucks and get the speed tuned TZ, then yeah, that will smoke a 3.3...but a stock TZ...not gonna happen, my friend.
    Last edited by jato75; 01-28-2007 at 10:10 AM.

  37. #37
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    You are both right on some point. ok ? lol


    All you have to do, is find the right gearing that will allow you to get the maximum of your 3.3


    Other than that, yes, a stronger engine will bring you faster(with the right gearing).
    Other factor come into play, drag, ballooning tires. That will not help.

    A 3.3 is faster than a 2.5? yes,.... theres other engine out there, you may just have to pay the price for more speed.
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  38. #38
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    MAN, these threads are getting old! IMO, for the very little power that any of these mods gain you, you are better off just leaving the thing alone and being happy with what you got..... IT'S NOT WORTH IT!...........just imo of coarse.
    My car's so fast, it makes fast cars look not fast

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by yellowbeejato
    MAN, these threads are getting old! IMO, for the very little power that any of these mods gain you, you are better off just leaving the thing alone and being happy with what you got..... IT'S NOT WORTH IT!...........just imo of coarse.
    very well put yellowbeejato....

    very well put, indeed.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by jato75
    well, given that, and the TZ numbers, the stock TZ just dosen't have the same rpm's as the 3.3 has...be it from what Nitro Chicken said or what X-treme Rc mag said.

    Dude, you're not gonna change my mind. sorry. we can go around and around all day of you want to....
    However, if you wanna spend 400 bucks and get the speed tuned TZ, then yeah, that will smoke a 3.3...but a stock TZ...not gonna happen, my friend.
    Can't believe what I read... someone presents you the facts and you still diss them........ so sad.... not sure where you see $400... I see $180
    O.S. .18 TZ-T 1.18 @ 29,400 rpm 44.16 oz-in @ 21,750 rpm 42,050 rpm OSMG2114 $180
    in what I posted....

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