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  1. #41
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    Built/Shipped doesn't mean installed and running...
    Most of the people in these forums are a bit more... involved and on top of and sharing info. We may comprise a very small percentage of users as well. Add the fact the those here are more apt to try and NOT fry anything and use the ESC in the manner meant, where the common users are more apt to make mistakes.
    These are some pretty heavy generalizations but something to keep in mind.
    Also.. rule #1 .. don;t believe EVERYTHING you read on the net.
    If I were the pres of a company.. trying to share info online.. I don;t think I would be divulging actual failure rates..
    BUT, even giving the benefit of the doubt.. 1% failure rate is unheard of for a first run, redesign.. and I doubt they would all be the users here.
    I am not trying to argue, but just point out the other side of it all as well...
    No one knows for sure, but you have to admit.. With all the failures thus far, it sure does seem like there is an issue.. True? Maybe.. maybe not.
    I really don;t care as long as I can get one that will allow me to play wif ma toyz.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by fmj40
    If Traxxas advertised that there was a 3% chance that their trucks either wouldn't work, or would burst into flames when you ran it for the first time, would you buy it?

    Well one big reason I don't care, is because Castle Creations warrantys the heck out of their products... You could send it back, melted into 5 different pieces, or a ball of plastic, and they'll send you a new one...
    Last edited by texas_pete; 08-29-2008 at 10:12 PM.
    E-R-E-V-O : My anti-drug.

  3. #43
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    what was the esc that everyone used with 3s lipos/neu motors before the MMM came out? is there anything wrong with that one?
    "As you think, so shall you become." -Bruce Lee

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by OM514
    what was the esc that everyone used with 3s lipos/neu motors before the MMM came out? is there anything wrong with that one?

    A lot of people used slightly modded Mamba Max's and they worked perfectly.
    E-R-E-V-O : My anti-drug.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tempted
    I'll happily race my V-Twin against any MMM. I may lose, I may not. Let me get this right... You have a working MMM. One working MMM out of 4 that you have recieved. Thats a 75% failure rate on your ESCs alone. I've been running my V-Twin for weeks now as well, the difference is mine worked the first time. I didn't need a second, third or fourth ESC. My biggest gripe about all the people who claim the MMM is so great are saying it must be Larry's set-up. It must be user error. You yourself have 3 defective units. Larry has 6 and has yet to have one work for an extended period of time. More people have had 3 or more fail. It isn't user error. Its a product problem that should be corrected and the victims should be compensated with more than just a working unit. Larry has been waiting MONTHS to get one that works. Andrew32 has been waiting months to get his MM back.
    You have to at least look at other areas though... I ran one of my v1 MMM's for a full 2 months before it went up like a torch and nearly a month on the other v1 MMM before she smoked. He has gone through 6 and didn't get any use at all.. I'm sorry, with those numbers and knowing what I know of them I would have to say that more than likely something else is wrong. That isn't 100%, but again the odds favor something else is at play contributing to the huge failure rate and w/ no sustained uptime. PS the v2 MMM of mine that is dead wasn't the typical failure.. it was pretty much a fluke.
    Neu 1515 2.5d & 1.5d, 2x MMM -sIck IaM

  6. #46
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    A month or two isn't a good thing though. I'm not spending that money to play for a month, I'm spending that money to play forever. Larry is using a motor/esc combo that should work without problems. All of his wiring is correct and it it unbelievably clean. I wish my trucks were as clean as his. He did get some use out of one ESC, he posted videos on it. It was sick fast. I give the MMM kudos if it can stay alive. The problem is it hasn't. What about the others who have gone through 3 or 4? Or more? Or about the ones we don't hear about? I know the failure rate is MUCH higher than they are letting on due to the time it is taking to get things resolved and get new shipments out. They have halted production on the MM due to the MMM crisis. Those are words from a member who is waiting on their MM to be repaied/replaced. Fluke or not, it failed. Most of the MMM owners have experienced failue as well. Just read the threads about working ones. There are about 2. That while there are numerous threads about non-working units. I would prefer no down-time on my rig waiting on parts. Larry has had nothing but downtime since he has owned these MMMs. How would you feel if you had over $1,000 invested in trucks just to watch them sit and stare at you? Not because they broke, not user error, but because of a defective product. And on top of that, they continue to send out more defective products to replace them. And then what if that flawed ESC take your truck down in a fire? How would you feel if that happened? Because it took someones chassis out on here, I forget who. Even if Castle replaced the chassis for you, you have to put the truck back together.
    The answer is no. And yes, mine is faster.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tempted
    Larry is using a motor/esc combo that should work without problems.
    Says who ?

  8. #48
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    Awww man I may as well throw mine away now. Even though its working. Thanks Tempted

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tempted
    How would you feel if you had over $1,000 invested in trucks just to watch them sit and stare at you? Not because they broke, not user error, but because of a defective product. And on top of that, they continue to send out more defective products to replace them. And then what if that flawed ESC take your truck down in a fire? How would you feel if that happened? Because it took someones chassis out on here, I forget who. Even if Castle replaced the chassis for you, you have to put the truck back together.
    Listen, Castle has to get them fixed.. no doubt, nobody is arguing that point... they are no better than m$ at this point. Also nobody was putting Larry or his craftsmanship down.. the motor could be flawed, I mean there could be any number of issues that are contributing to his abnormally fast and high failure rate. With 6 down and no run time I wouldn't be comfortable saying my truck had no issues.. so I would suspect the same of anyone else, and I run clean trucks too!




    PS it was mine on fire!

    Last edited by 1fasterevo; 08-30-2008 at 12:08 AM.
    Neu 1515 2.5d & 1.5d, 2x MMM -sIck IaM

  10. #50
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    heh Monster smore ^


    I seriously say its the lipo and gearing, when Larry changes to 6s he doesnt gear it for same or slightly higfher speed with cooler temps on higher voltage, he just pops 6s in for speed runs. The lipos are maxamps "20c". If Austin says the 6ks wont work what would make the 5ks better ? The MA 5ks trip the LVC on my rustler when I punch it too hard. If I had a spare $400 id send Larry some 30c 5k 3s's to test out.
    Last edited by jayjay283; 08-29-2008 at 11:39 PM.

  11. #51
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    Larry has two different motors, though. So both would be flawed? I understand that after 6 units something has to give, but you forget that Larry has two trucks. He ordered MMMs and Neus for both. Both trucks are down due to the ESC failure. You need to see Larry's trucks!! Clean is one thing, he is OC about his trucks. They look incredible. That is irrelevant. If it were just his ESCs, I might agree and say the trucks are to blame. I don't want to argue about it anymore. I just need someone to run with! My buddies who are using CC stuff are down and can't run with me! I'll keep my old V-Twin until the MMM is sorted. Once it is, I might look into a pair of those for an MMM-Twin.

    Edit- After looking at your pics, the V1 looks better than the V2. Haha.
    Last edited by Tempted; 08-29-2008 at 11:42 PM.
    The answer is no. And yes, mine is faster.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by jayjay283
    heh Monster smore ^


    I seriously say its the lipo and gearing, when Larry changes to 6s he doesnt gear it for lsame or slightly higfher with speed cooler temps on higher voltage, he just pops 6s in for speed runs. The lipos are maxamps "20c". If Austin says the 6ks wont work what would make the 5ks better ? The 5ks trip the LVC on my rustler when I punch it too hard. If I had a spare $400 id send Larry some 30c 5k 3s's to test out.

    Good idea. I have some 20/30c ***** packs he can run with on his next ESC.
    The answer is no. And yes, mine is faster.

  13. #53
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    Larry has the need for speed. He caught the highest speed possible bug, a Dual MMM dual Neu would pull far less amps obtaining the same speeds, hes just using the wrong platform an erevo because of the limiting battery space. Larry needs to build a Grevo so he can plop 10's in there. Though I agree the MMM should be able to pull it for at least a couple runs as is.
    Last edited by jayjay283; 08-29-2008 at 11:46 PM.

  14. #54
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    wow, i missed alot today. I may have been one of those jerks saying "user error" in another forum. Truth is, its not exactly what I meant to say. So if Larry or anyone else took offense, I apologise. I don't think Larry is the problem. But seeing how many ESC's he has been through, I have to suspect something is wrong with a component he is using. Its just hard for me to believe that EVERY ESC castle sent him was bad. No one has luck that bad. Just sheer numbers tells me that at least ONE of those ESC's should be working. Maybe I'm wrong, and for Larry's sake, I hope I am... because I have no idea how to help the guy troubleshoot anything else. EVERYONE has asked him about his batteries, wiring etc. I truly feel bad for him in his situation and hope it gets resolved soon. I'm fresh out of ideas other than keeping my fingers crossed... sorry man.
    be nice.

  15. #55
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    I don't think it's user error, but I do wonder if there is something in Larry's set-up that kills them almost instantly.

    Larry, have you tried using a different rx and servo just to eliminate those two components as suspects?

    I agree that the MMM should be much better than it is. I sold two MMMv1s that are both still going strong. My MMMv2 lasted the first day, but died the next day after a big jump. I think it was physically broken inside because the mount was broken as well.

    I was actually doing an EagleTree log on it when it died, so here it is for your viewing pleasure. I was running it in my E-Revo - 9XL - 24/65 - 4s lipo.

    Save 10% of the money you make..... you'll never regret it.

  16. #56
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    At least the MMM's don't seem to be shorting out battery packs like the EVX2's....

    After all these problems with Electronic Speed Controls, it makes me kinda want to go back to the good old days of Mechanical Speed Controls.... They could get wet no problem, the heat was routed far away on the resistor, and they just worked, plain and simple. Hard to believe my thoughts have gone back to the 80's for reliable operations... LOL

    I have to wonder what kind of engineers are working on these things.... There aren't all that many parts in there to troubleshoot. Maybe I'll keep my extra MMM as a spare if the other one goes bad.

    Perhaps the real issue here is using Sensorless technology versus Sensored ??? If we added up the failures of all brands sensorless vs sensored, I wonder that the result would be.

    Another issue to ponder is in electric, the ESC is providing the brakes, and this also represents huge current spikes, in addition to the jolt off the line, and under hard acceleration. I got to thinking about that looking at a Tekno conversion, that uses the 1/8 Buggy mechanical brakes, and the Novak BL Mod. That would sure take a lot of stress off these high power ESC's via using mechanical brakes.

    Just trying to think outside the box here... and not get into arguments about Larry and his trucks...

    So the question is, if company XYZ really came out with a truly Bullet-Proof design, and had no defects, and everyone raved about it, HOW MUCH WOULD YOU PAY ?? Just curious....

    My limit would be about $250, assuming it had the friendly warranty policy like TRX and Castle have...
    Last edited by BT_EMT; 08-30-2008 at 06:10 AM.
    3905 E-MAXX

  17. #57
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    The fact is, anyone can opt to spend more money on an MGM (or Tekin or whatever) and take their chances.

    They may blow also.




    My personal choice is to go with the guy who'll replace it with no questions asked as soon as he can.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by texas_pete
    Larry,

    Do you think after you've gone through six of them, that it might be a motor or battery problem?

    What motor/batterys are you using?

    What TX/RX are you using?

    and

    Finally, What's your gearing?


    I'm just really curious is all..

    Thanks ahead of time for the info...
    Pete..I am running a 1.5d on 2-2s 8000's/2-3s 5000's Maxamp Lipos...
    gearing is a 62/22...

    its a good install..no motor screws touching the windings,,good solid connections

    fyi....i have a 3905 Emaxx with a Neu 151 1y....my first MMM failed on that setup..which draws LESS amperge...so, its not an AMP thing

    the failures have ranged from "just arming" to "running half throttle"
    Been there, done that.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by jayjay283
    6s on the 1.5d again Larry ? Geared for what 70mph.. You should get a boat controller with 500 amps and 12s capable and use a parachute to slow down.

    70 wold be nice..if i can find some tires to handle it!
    Been there, done that.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by larrydino
    70 wold be nice..if i can find some tires to handle it!
    1/8 touring car foams
    Run it, break it, fix it, love it :]=~

  21. #61
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    i just read all of the posts...you guys are all great people!

    I appreciate everyone's feedback...you all make excellent points to consider.

    I spend a LOT of time on my trucks. Every solder joint...every connection...every screw...I check and re-check.

    I was trained as a BioMedical Electronic Engineer....so Rc'ing is a fun way of exercising my skills..

    I am by no means an 'expert" in this field..I often write to many of you and ask for your advice!

    I know it is the esc's...Ive gone through 6 because I asked Castle to rush ship my MMM back to me each time...so, i was lucky..less down time than most of you.

    i just sent the #6 MMM back today..lets see how long it takes

    Larry
    Been there, done that.

  22. #62
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    Larry, have you tried a different servo/rx?

    I'm convinced that most of the MMM problems we're having are related to the internal BEC being finicky and weaker than it should be. Maybe the guys with weaker servos are the ones having more luck with MMMs. If you're using the twin servos on the E-Revo, they might just be pulling too much from the weak MMM internal BEC.

    BrianG has actually modified his MMM to completely eliminate the internal BEC. I'm not saying we should have to do this, but it might be a decent workaround until Castle gets the bugs worked out.

    Just thinking anyway ... it hurts!

  23. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by kulangflow
    Larry, have you tried a different servo/rx?

    I'm convinced that most of the MMM problems we're having are related to the internal BEC being finicky and weaker than it should be. Maybe the guys with weaker servos are the ones having more luck with MMMs. If you're using the twin servos on the E-Revo, they might just be pulling too much from the weak MMM internal BEC.

    BrianG has actually modified his MMM to completely eliminate the internal BEC. I'm not saying we should have to do this, but it might be a decent workaround until Castle gets the bugs worked out.

    Just thinking anyway ... it hurts!
    ..i have tried another Rx..but I havent replaced any servos..

    i ran this e_revo with the evx-2 on lipos..it was great ..the esc NEVER gave me any trouble on the exact same setup as i run now..

    ..do you think the evx-2 would fail if there were servo voltage-demand issues?

    wouldnt a single steering servo demand more peak volts than 2 smaller ones?

    food for thought
    Been there, done that.

  24. #64
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    So far... MMM #3 has lasted a set of 4s 8Amp packs. This is with an external NOVAK BEC and the red wire cut on the MMM.

  25. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by larrydino
    ..i have tried another Rx..but I havent replaced any servos..

    i ran this e_revo with the evx-2 on lipos..it was great ..the esc NEVER gave me any trouble on the exact same setup as i run now..

    ..do you think the evx-2 would fail if there were servo voltage-demand issues?

    wouldnt a single steering servo demand more peak volts than 2 smaller ones?

    food for thought
    Well, the servo demand shouldn't fry the BEC if the BEC is working properly like in the evx-2. It's not necessarily that your servos are bad, just that they're demanding when it comes to a weak/faulty BEC like what I suspect is found in these MMM's.

    Just for giggles, when you get your next MMM, only hook up one of the stock E-Revo servos and see if that does the trick. That's what I'm going to try. FWIW, the MMMv1 that is still working like a champ in my friend's Revo is only powering one lower-torque servo. I'd bet money that if I put a more powerful servo in there, it would toast.

    I'm not an engineer by any means, but it makes sense to me!

  26. #66
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    well larry....you have room for one more in your club?

    I didnt want to start a new thread for my MMM so i'm gonna hang out here a bit if thats ok with you...

    It finally happened to me. At least I got to use my burn plate that I made!

    I went to a swap meet today. There were a few guys there that had seen my e-revo.
    They were all excited that I showed up. They had been talking to others about my truck before I got there...

    I guess there had been some buzz in the area about my e-revo.
    I had turned some heads i guess, because I had a few HS owners asking me questions and wanting similar set-ups.
    Normally, I'm pretty modest about things, but people around here were really hyped about my truck...

    anyway, after I let them stew a bit, I pulled my e-revo out.
    after a few minutes of questions and small talk, I thought I would let her speak for herself.
    She was running like a champ! I had jaws dropped to the floor!
    Standing backflips, running over curbs, spinouts...I really let her rip. Everyone was goin crazy.

    I stopped to show some slow speed and brought her to a crawl to let everyone see how smooth she was.
    Put her up to a parking bumper and let her crawl over nice and slow...again alot of "ooh's" and "ah's".

    I then went to open her up again...and I got a studder..."uh oh, that was weird"

    -Then, it happened...
    ...Casper, in all of his wonderous glory, comes pouring out from under the body.!
    Accompanied by a hissing sound we all started running towards the truck.
    Pulled the body off as fast as we could and pulled the batteries off of the flaming ESC!

    Dude, I gotta be honest...


    ...it was AWESOME! ha ha!

    Its too bad that no-one had a camera.
    I took pics when I got home though...

    here ya go fella's;










    I found one last use for my MMM before I send it back;



    I figured "it was the least they could do"


    Too bad it happened today, I wont be able to call until Tuesday... oh well.
    be nice.

  27. #67
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    I agree, I am running 1 JR 170oz servo and was going to go to 2 200oz LINK but it says right on it
    "Note: Due to the high torque capabilities combined with the high speed of the servo, it does draw more power from your battery pack than most other servos (you don't get that much speed and power for free!).

    So I figured id leave well enough alone and go with whats working lol



    edit : LOL nice Hoov, guess they wont be repairing that one. Let castle know they dont need to send a return shipping paid label with your Warranty one LOL
    Last edited by jayjay283; 08-30-2008 at 03:03 PM.

  28. #68
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    Sorry to hear about that man, that ESC plate finally served its purpose, hope nothing else is damaged along with it...at least your chassis isn't toasted. Time for new ESC! HINT!
    Last edited by ptt81; 08-30-2008 at 03:46 PM.

  29. #69
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    lol--i hear ya.
    Its all good.
    Like dickyT says "run it, break it ,fix it, love it"
    be nice.

  30. #70
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    I read it somewhere before that a guy asked Patrick what the max amp rating for the Bec was and he said Patrick told him 3 amp's.

  31. #71
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    So far.. my #3 is running very well and that is with an external BEC.

    I am having fun turning some heads at the campground we are at. A bunch of teens came around.. "Man.. How much does one of those cost?" My wife was within ear shot so I wouldn't answer. I just laughed at said, "It wasn't cheap!"

    I also found out.. That dang thing hurts really bad if you hit yourself. Was coming around the gentle curve... and the lean just caused the car to take the curve a bit wider than though. I was about half throttle and it came right at me.. I jumped.. One foot cleared and the second didn't. My ankle is killing me.

  32. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaySki
    So far.. my #3 is running very well and that is with an external BEC.

    I am having fun turning some heads at the campground we are at. A bunch of teens came around.. "Man.. How much does one of those cost?" My wife was within ear shot so I wouldn't answer. I just laughed at said, "It wasn't cheap!"

    I also found out.. That dang thing hurts really bad if you hit yourself. Was coming around the gentle curve... and the lean just caused the car to take the curve a bit wider than though. I was about half throttle and it came right at me.. I jumped.. One foot cleared and the second didn't. My ankle is killing me.

    i got hit with my emaxx..same as you ...one foot cleared, and one didnt!
    Been there, done that.

  33. #73
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    well larry....you have room for one more in your club?

    Hoov'....what a bummer! I'm sorry to hear your joining my "roast-a-MMM-once-a-week-club"!
    Been there, done that.

  34. #74
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    Guys I've been racing with a JR DS8711 Ultra torque servo on my v2 MMM and it's been holding out so far.. I don't think it's the servo thing that is causing these failures any more.
    Neu 1515 2.5d & 1.5d, 2x MMM -sIck IaM

  35. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1fasterevo
    Guys I've been racing with a JR DS8711 Ultra torque servo on my v2 MMM and it's been holding out so far.. I don't think it's the servo thing that is causing these failures any more.

    you ever run 6s in your setup?
    Been there, done that.

  36. #76
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    I'm on my third week of running the Hitec 333oz torque servo with the MMM.

    Still the V1 with 1515 1.5D geared 65/22 mostly on 4s 8000mah Maxamps packs.

    I must admit, I'm feeling reeeeeeally lucky at the moment.

  37. #77
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    So it appears to work with a single high-torque, but I wonder if the two separate units makes a difference, even though they're less combined torque than the one single.

    Just thinking out loud.

  38. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by kulangflow
    So it appears to work with a single high-torque, but I wonder if the two separate units makes a difference, even though they're less combined torque than the one single.

    Just thinking out loud.

    Haha, heck no!

    I was running it with a single Z590 when it gave me a second Olympic opening... That's a 85oz single metal gear servo... That doesn't draw nearly as much power as two 2075's or one high-torque servo....
    E-R-E-V-O : My anti-drug.

  39. #79
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    I guess that kills that theory. :-)

  40. #80
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    the weak servos are so overloaded trying to move monster truck tires they cause the not so well made bec on the v2 to heat up until the solder bubbles and the whole thing shorts out ? my theory #12 lol

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