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  1. #1
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    I need to tips for stock racing

    I keep getting outrun and need some tips to keep up. I noticed the front runners just pull away no matter what I do. Their trucks even sound different. They run the same gearing I do and I even bought some 7 cell enerG batteries to get more speed and still I can not keep up.
    T-Maxx 4910/2 Slash

  2. #2
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    things to check:

    - what radio are they using (with some radios they give you a little more power, google it if u wana know more)
    - have they modded their diff (if its stock racing, most people wont tell you cause its 'against the rules.' however you can tell if people have sealed their diffs, because when they go into a corner the inside wheel wont spin as much as a 'true' stock car).
    - have they soldered their motor connectors together (less Resistance = more speed).
    - lower suspension mounts (better handling).
    - are they running lipos (lipos are just simply better that nimhs. more amps, lighter, keep their voltage longer, etc)
    GARAGE
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by concreat
    things to check:

    - what radio are they using (with some radios they give you a little more power, google it if u wana know more)
    I didn't know this was possible...Interesting.

  4. #4
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    Buy a dx3s, get a lipo, and do anything you can to get a lower center of gravity.
    Free all none violent drug offenders!

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinny Sabatini
    Buy a dx3s, get a lipo, and do anything you can to get a lower center of gravity.
    any 2.4ghz radio will do...
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  6. #6
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. harry697's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by concreat
    any 2.4ghz radio will do...
    So how do you figure a 2.4 radio will give you more power?

  7. #7
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    On a dx3s you can mess with the throttle %. Turn it up to 150% and you'll notice a difference.

  8. #8
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. harry697's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rccar306109
    On a dx3s you can mess with the throttle %. Turn it up to 150% and you'll notice a difference.

    Are you trying to say that setting your throttle EPA to 150% will make the truck faster? It won't,but I'm just asking if that's what you're implying.

  9. #9
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    It would appear the issue between lipo and NMHydride is not the problem. The other guys use 7 cell packs as well. Could they be doing something special with the charging process? Is is possible to modify the stock motor to perform better? I did find an adjustment with my DX3.0 for throttle end travel. Does charging a pack at 5 amps vs 2 amps give it more power? My truck seems about the same as most, but there are a could of guys who have figured out how to get more from theirs.
    T-Maxx 4910/2 Slash

  10. #10
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. harry697's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jboehm
    It would appear the issue between lipo and NMHydride is not the problem. The other guys use 7 cell packs as well. Could they be doing something special with the charging process? Is is possible to modify the stock motor to perform better? I did find an adjustment with my DX3.0 for throttle end travel. Does charging a pack at 5 amps vs 2 amps give it more power? My truck seems about the same as most, but there are a could of guys who have figured out how to get more from theirs.

    What 7 cell pack are you running?Charging at a higher rate will give you more power.It's a slight difference,but those are the ones that make the difference in stock racing.If you're interested in making your motor faster and still be legal,shoot me a PM and I'll tell you all about it.


    And do yourself a favor.Stay away from the guys that tell you your radio will make the truck go faster.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by rccar306109
    On a dx3s you can mess with the throttle %. Turn it up to 150% and you'll notice a difference.
    You could turn the TX up to 600% and you wouldn't get any more power than the motor/battery/ESC is capable of producing. Providing the ESC has been properly calibrated to your transmitter. Sorry but no transmitter on Earth is going to give you more power than is available on a properly setup car/truck.


    First off I'm assuming you are running at a track, in a class and not just with a group of bashers. If you're running 7 cells then you're not running "spec" class so there are a lot of variables involved in the mod/unlimited classes. You're in the money class now and it all comes down to how much money you can spend. I always called it the "Buy a trophy" class. That's why I love "stock" or "spec" classes!

    If you're not simply being out driven (something we all hate to admit to) but being pulled on the straights then look for something binding like bad bearings, gear mesh too tight, too heavy lube on tranny gears etc. Anything that makes the drive train have to work too hard.

    Poor wiring can sap tons of power as well and is probably the #1 culprit in performance problems. Are solder joints good? No "cold" joints? Even factory solder joints can be bad. Cheap "Tamiya" (Molex) connectors that come on some cheap packs are the absolute worst you can use on an R/C car. How is your motor? Did you break it in? Look inside at the commutator. Is it black or grooved? If so then trash it. If you have a brushless is it a comparable wind to the guys you're running with?

    Don't expect to go to a race week after week with your only maintenance being charging the battery between events and some bash sessions in between. You'll never win a race that way. My race car was just that. A race car. After a race it was torn down completely and anything that needed attention got it. After a complete rebuild it went on the stand and stayed there until the next race. I had another car to "play" with.

    I think I said it before here but 90% of the races I've won could be directly attributable to pre race prep and attention to detail. 8% to luck and the rest to hopefully a little skill. Your best bet is to befriend one of the fast guys at the track and have him look your truck over. If he sees something wrong then fix it. Have him drive the truck once and listen to his feedback. That won't cost you a dime and could save you lots of money trying to chase down your problem.

    Winning takes commitment.....

    Joe

  12. #12
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    Our spec class allows the 7 cell. These are suppose to be basically stock vehicles. I am sure my driving won't win me any races, but these guys pull me on the straights and you can hear a difference in their electric motors.
    T-Maxx 4910/2 Slash

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    Quote Originally Posted by jboehm
    Our spec class allows the 7 cell. These are suppose to be basically stock vehicles. I am sure my driving won't win me any races, but these guys pull me on the straights and you can hear a difference in their electric motors.
    Are they running brushless on 7 cells? If so then you're done. You won't be very competitive with a stock motor. Just go out to have fun and work on your driving skills. Wait for the check book guys to crash then drive on by them. Race the track. NOT the other trucks!

    Joe

  14. #14
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    This is by far the best tip I can give you. Put your location (city/state only) in your profile! You'd be surprised at just how many locals might pop up to offer help.

    Joe

  15. #15
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    A few weeks ago I asked about having a race only section within this forum. It fell on deaf ears. It seems this is mostly a bashing forum but has lots of good info nonetheless. Those of us that want to race will have to use Google on a daily basis to find what we really want. If anyone finds a true spec class Slash race forum then please post the link for all to share. Hopefully the mods won't delete it.

    Joe

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by badmeat
    You could turn the TX up to 600% and you wouldn't get any more power than the motor/battery/ESC is capable of producing. Providing the ESC has been properly calibrated to your transmitter. Sorry but no transmitter on Earth is going to give you more power than is available on a properly setup car/truck.


    First off I'm assuming you are running at a track, in a class and not just with a group of bashers. If you're running 7 cells then you're not running "spec" class so there are a lot of variables involved in the mod/unlimited classes. You're in the money class now and it all comes down to how much money you can spend. I always called it the "Buy a trophy" class. That's why I love "stock" or "spec" classes!

    If you're not simply being out driven (something we all hate to admit to) but being pulled on the straights then look for something binding like bad bearings, gear mesh too tight, too heavy lube on tranny gears etc. Anything that makes the drive train have to work too hard.

    Poor wiring can sap tons of power as well and is probably the #1 culprit in performance problems. Are solder joints good? No "cold" joints? Even factory solder joints can be bad. Cheap "Tamiya" (Molex) connectors that come on some cheap packs are the absolute worst you can use on an R/C car. How is your motor? Did you break it in? Look inside at the commutator. Is it black or grooved? If so then trash it. If you have a brushless is it a comparable wind to the guys you're running with?

    Don't expect to go to a race week after week with your only maintenance being charging the battery between events and some bash sessions in between. You'll never win a race that way. My race car was just that. A race car. After a race it was torn down completely and anything that needed attention got it. After a complete rebuild it went on the stand and stayed there until the next race. I had another car to "play" with.

    I think I said it before here but 90% of the races I've won could be directly attributable to pre race prep and attention to detail. 8% to luck and the rest to hopefully a little skill. Your best bet is to befriend one of the fast guys at the track and have him look your truck over. If he sees something wrong then fix it. Have him drive the truck once and listen to his feedback. That won't cost you a dime and could save you lots of money trying to chase down your problem.

    Winning takes commitment.....

    Joe

    Well said.But he is racing in a stock class.Apparently 7 cell packs were the ones of choice at his track.That's how my track started out.A couple new guys showed up one weekend with Slashes.None of us had ever seen them before,but they were running 7 cell packs and the trucks still seemed slow compared to what we were accustomed to.So we decided on a Venom 7 cell "spec" pack.Now we run lipo because people from other tracks started showing up and that's what they had.

    Anyway,you posted alot of good info here.A friend of mine who races Slash with me wanted to know how I was walking him on the straight.I pit right next to him so he knows I'm not cheating.But by looking at his truck,I could find at least 10 reasons why I was faster.He has some shady solder joints,truck is dirty,bad wheel alignment,super long motor and esc wires,etc.All these things add up.I couldn't believe just how much a wheel alignment could slow your top speed down.If you wanna win,especially in stock class,you gotta have everything in primo condition.Even tire balancing can make a big difference in your lap times.

  17. #17
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    In stock racing, you make up your most time in the turns. Learn to drive a consistent line and it will overcome any power advantage the others may have.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by jboehm
    I keep getting outrun and need some tips to keep up. I noticed the front runners just pull away no matter what I do. Their trucks even sound different. They run the same gearing I do and I even bought some 7 cell enerG batteries to get more speed and still I can not keep up.
    Assuming they are not cheating, the bolded sentence is the one that stands out for me. Have you completely disassembled your truck, cleaned and re-lubed everything (especially the transmission and diff), and carefully put it back together?

    As has already been mentioned, a bunch of little things can add up to a big difference.

    Also, when you say "outrun", are you getting blown away on the straights, or do they just pull away, a little bit each lap?

  19. #19
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. harry697's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadyJC
    In stock racing, you make up your most time in the turns. Learn to drive a consistent line and it will overcome any power advantage the others may have.

    Not if the person with the power advantage has the same skills as you.You would have to be a really bad driver if you had a mod motor and couldn't beat a group of guys with stock motors.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by harry697
    Not if the person with the power advantage has the same skills as you.You would have to be a really bad driver if you had a mod motor and couldn't beat a group of guys with stock motors.
    Not necessarily "really bad". I used to race electric touring cars, and often went to a local on-road track to practice. I was running a ROAR-spec stock motor, 27 turns, etc. I regularly ran faster laps than the guys out there with nitro cars. Sure, they would run me down on the back stretch, but I would pass them in the tight sections, and each lap, I was a little further down the back stretch before they caught me.

    In my experience, a lot of people with fast motors use the speed on the straights as a crutch to make up for their poor driving in the twisties. I used to road race full-size cars also, and saw the same thing. An underpowered car can teach you a lot about the importance of preparation, setup, driving lines, momentum conservation, etc., because all your mistakes are magnified on the next long straight.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tobey
    Not necessarily "really bad". I used to race electric touring cars, and often went to a local on-road track to practice. I was running a ROAR-spec stock motor, 27 turns, etc. I regularly ran faster laps than the guys out there with nitro cars. Sure, they would run me down on the back stretch, but I would pass them in the tight sections, and each lap, I was a little further down the back stretch before they caught me.

    In my experience, a lot of people with fast motors use the speed on the straights as a crutch to make up for their poor driving in the twisties. I used to road race full-size cars also, and saw the same thing. An underpowered car can teach you a lot about the importance of preparation, setup, driving lines, momentum conservation, etc., because all your mistakes are magnified on the next long straight.
    I agree with what you're saying.I just disagree with the comment about consistant driving making up for power advantage.It's just plain not true if you have two equally,or closely matched drivers.Heck,I run a vxl system in my T4 and can beat 99% of the guys running Novak and Tekin with 6.5 and 7.5 motors.But there is one kid I usually can't beat.Our skills are pretty close,but his truck is just plain faster.

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    I attended a local race over the weekend. It was a new track and I just wanted to go watch the races. I normally run in the stock class as it's more affordable and I noticed that the guy that one EVERY race was simply the guy that kept it on the track. This guy was just rolling over the jumps. Not flying the car into space. Easy drives thru the the corners not sliding it around etc. It was quit boring to watch but in the end he was a full lap ahead and pulling away.

    There was another class that was all Slayers with the exception of one SC10 with a mild brushless setup (I don't know why he was in that class) and he SC10 clearly walked away with the win. Again it was a boring run but he won..

    At the club level it's the better driver that will win every time period. The Slayers clearly had the power and traction advantage but the SC10 just walked away with it.

    At the club level Your car or truck does need to be in good shape but don't worry about every little detail and don't waste a ton of money on hopup parts. Just go out there and drive the car but Don't over drive the track. Slow and steady will win 99% of the time.
    Last edited by john01374; 09-21-2009 at 09:37 AM.
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    From the sounds of it, I need to tear my slash apart this week and clean it top to bottom, lube it up, and replace a few things, shorten my wires, re solder a few joints and see if i can squeeze some extra power out of this pig... also putting on a new Desert Rat Slash body in the next few weeks.

    Motor will be getting replaced ( just because mines got almost 400 laps on it and I didnt break it in ( probably should have )

  24. #24
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. Emaxx2.0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by harry697
    I agree with what you're saying.I just disagree with the comment about consistant driving making up for power advantage.It's just plain not true if you have two equally,or closely matched drivers.Heck,I run a vxl system in my T4 and can beat 99% of the guys running Novak and Tekin with 6.5 and 7.5 motors.But there is one kid I usually can't beat.Our skills are pretty close,but his truck is just plain faster.
    HEY DON'T TALK ABOUT TEKIN MEANIE!!! The VXL motor is a freak of nature. They run insanly fast in a T4. You're right, my T4 with my Tekin couldn't keep up with the T$ running aVXL but my driving was far more superior. Now that I connected the VXL to my Tekin I wonder what happens when a unstoppable force collides into a immovable odject
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by tjroux
    From the sounds of it, I need to tear my slash apart this week and clean it top to bottom, lube it up, and replace a few things, shorten my wires, re solder a few joints and see if i can squeeze some extra power out of this pig... also putting on a new Desert Rat Slash body in the next few weeks.

    Motor will be getting replaced ( just because mines got almost 400 laps on it and I didnt break it in ( probably should have )
    Breaking it in only affect the first few runs. It's give a slight power inc in the beginning but then just levels off the more you run it. You got 400laps your motor did it's job.
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  26. #26
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. Emaxx2.0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john01374
    I attended a local race over the weekend. It was a new track and I just wanted to go watch the races. I normally run in the stock class as it's more affordable and I noticed that the guy that one EVERY race was simply the guy that kept it on the track. This guy was just rolling over the jumps. Not flying the car into space. Easy drives thru the the corners not sliding it around etc. It was quit boring to watch but in the end he was a full lap ahead and pulling away.

    There was another class that was all Slayers with the exception of one SC10 with a mild brushless setup (I don't know why he was in that class) and he SC10 clearly walked away with the win. Again it was a boring run but he won..

    At the club level it's the better driver that will win every time period. The Slayers clearly had the power and traction advantage but the SC10 just walked away with it.
    At the club level Your car or truck does need to be in good shape but don't worry about every little detail and don't waste a ton of money on hopup parts. Just go out there and drive the car but Don't over drive the track. Slow and steady will win 99% of the time.
    This isn't true. A mild brushless in a lightweight truck like that can easily do 40mph. The SC10 is just a longer T4. It might be 2wd but they handle extremely well and cut corners unlike any other truck. Electric has the advantage with instant power and torque. My T4 with a old trinity 27t smokes the nitros at the track.
    Simply the best. The beautiful Traxxas SRT and TCP

  27. #27
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    This SC10 was not doing anywhere near 40 mph. More like 10 mph for 95% of the track and maybe 15mph on the back straight. I don't know which brushless was in it but it was really mild... Watching the start the Slayers clearly had the power and traction advantage. All you have to do is sit back and wait for them to crash or spin out.
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  28. #28
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. Emaxx2.0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john01374
    This SC10 was not doing anywhere near 40 mph. More like 10 mph for 95% of the track and maybe 15mph on the back straight. I don't know which brushless was in it but it was really mild... Watching the start the Slayers clearly had the power and traction advantage. All you have to do is sit back and wait for them to crash or spin out.
    I wasn't saying at the track..im talking in general(maybe except a 17.5t which would do 30). The SC10 won b/c of clean driving and the advantage of electric in the turns. I would also help if I read your entire post too instead of focusing on just one part .
    Last edited by Emaxx2.0; 09-21-2009 at 10:40 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emaxx2.0
    Breaking it in only affect the first few runs. It's give a slight power inc in the beginning but then just levels off the more you run it. You got 400laps your motor did it's job.
    You're kidding right? Not seating the brushes (breaking in) and just driving it all out leads to arcing between the brushes and the commutator. That can pit, groove and burn the comm. It also overheats and crystallizes the brushes. You're NOT going to have an efficient motor that way. Why do you think they sell comm lathes? Watch the pros. Many of them dress their comms after every race. That's excessive for us but shows the importance of proper brush/comm contact and performance. Breaking in a motor IS a worthwhile effort.

    Joe

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by badmeat
    You're kidding right? Not seating the brushes (breaking in) and just driving it all out leads to arcing between the brushes and the commutator. That can pit, groove and burn the comm. It also overheats and crystallizes the brushes. You're NOT going to have an efficient motor that way. Why do you think they sell comm lathes? Watch the pros. Many of them dress their comms after every race. That's excessive for us but shows the importance of proper brush/comm contact and performance. Breaking in a motor IS a worthwhile effort.

    Joe
    We are talking about a Titan close endbell motor. It's not a proformance motor in-mind. They are throw aways and as I stated in my previous post, Iit will only affect the motor for a few runs. I understand the important of properly maintaining a brush motor. I was working on motors since I was 11years old. Cutting comms, aligning brushhoods, polarizing brushes and springs, polishing shaft, seating bushing and bearings and shimming the armautre in the magentic field. Reedy, Trinity and Orion 19t and 27t. My dad started a motor company using T.O.P(Team Orion Peak) base teardown motors. Having hundreds of T.O.P base 27t motors was exciting. I will tell you not one motor had a single problem. Surely I hope you don't pay the extra cash for a pro tune motors? Did you know a motor comes from the factory with a perfectly trued comm? Why is that? Oh b/c is affects the balancing of the armature. Any tuner knows this and will still tell you they trued it so you pay the extra cash. Now, lets see you do all of that with a Titan.
    Last edited by Emaxx2.0; 09-21-2009 at 11:10 AM.
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  31. #31
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. harry697's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john01374

    At the club level it's the better driver that will win every time period. The Slayers clearly had the power and traction advantage but the SC10 just walked away with it.

    This thread is getting way off topic now.The OP stated that he is being pulled on the straight,not through jumps or corners.Sure 90% of the race is driver skill,but when you are being pulled on the straight,that is the other 10%.If I could manuver through the track just as fast as another guy,but he pulls away from me on the straight,consistant cornering is not gonna win the race for me.Driving goes a long way until you come across another driver who is just as good,but has a faster truck.It's really a simple concept,but for some reason most people aren't getting it.

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    Right. We're getting off topic. Thanks Harry.

    Joe

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    Quote Originally Posted by jboehm
    I keep getting outrun and need some tips to keep up. I noticed the front runners just pull away no matter what I do. Their trucks even sound different. They run the same gearing I do and I even bought some 7 cell enerG batteries to get more speed and still I can not keep up.
    Check all the bearings on the truck and the ones in the trani. too, make sure none of them gumed up or rusted some. I had a brand new truck that had some what of a bad bearing on the out drive and that just adds resistance to the motor performance and speed. Watch the fast guys race and you will see sometimes slow is fast knowing when to use the power makes a difference.

    Except for harry he just plain fast...
    We are coming down to Family soon, might be next week if i can get someone to cover.

  34. #34
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    Also make sure all of your wheels turn freely. If you tighten the front wheels nuts too tight they will really bind up. If your do your maintenance to your truck, charge your batteries at a higher amp rate and they still pull you by alot, it's possible they could've advanced the timing.

    The best advice, just talk to them. In stock TC I was accused of cheating all of the time. When someone would ask for help I would gladly go thru their car and free it up just as much as mine. Then their friends would accuse them of cheating. Just ask them questions, most guys will tell you all of the "secrets" because they want the competition, it's no fun if you win all of the time.

  35. #35
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. harry697's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slash racer
    We are coming down to Family soon, might be next week if i can get someone to cover.
    Sounds good! Let me know a day or two ahead of time and I'll be sure to have the Slash ready.I haven't been racing it lately.It's more fun for me at this point to watch the other guys go at it.I also like marshaling that class so I can yell at Boorman.


    I'm still trying to get everyone together for a trip to HH.Got my Revo ready.



    Sorry,back to making the Slash pull harder.

  36. #36
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    When I had a Slash, I had it geared 20/84 it was faster than the "stock" spur geared racers!! The 84 did make my Slash sound diff!! The other racers THOUGHT I was geared like them.
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  37. #37
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. Emaxx2.0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmail58
    When I had a Slash, I had it geared 20/84 it was faster than the "stock" spur geared racers!! The 84 did make my Slash sound diff!! The other racers THOUGHT I was geared like them.
    How did you have a 84t spur when there is only 78,83,86 and 90 for he VXL style slipper? Only way I can see you using a 84t spur if it's the one design for the peg style slipper. Stock is 18/86 btw.
    Last edited by Emaxx2.0; 09-21-2009 at 11:49 PM.
    Simply the best. The beautiful Traxxas SRT and TCP

  38. #38
    Marshal ksb51rl's Avatar
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    Nov 2006
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    20,556
    Quote Originally Posted by harry697
    ...Sorry,back to making the Slash pull harder.
    Is it possible that the other guys are running the plastic internal tranny gears? Less inertia will get you up to speed faster, and may indeed sound different.
    Alt-248 on the number pad =

  39. #39
    RC Champion
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    some people also get firmer foams for their tires which= more speed better jump landing and more control but you might want to soften up your suspension after(idk if this is against the rules)
    Yes, I drive an electric converted Nitro Hawk.

  40. #40
    RC Qualifier
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    Quote Originally Posted by harry697
    What 7 cell pack are you running?Charging at a higher rate will give you more power.It's a slight difference,but those are the ones that make the difference in stock racing.If you're interested in making your motor faster and still be legal,shoot me a PM and I'll tell you all about it.


    And do yourself a favor.Stay away from the guys that tell you your radio will make the truck go faster.
    It won't make you go faster, but it can give you better acceleration.
    Free all none violent drug offenders!

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