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  1. #1
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. streetdemon's Avatar
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    This guys trying to rip me off...

    SO I recently traded my bike for a 77 Nova. The guy told me flat out that it had a 350 crate motor and a 350 trans. It has neither, he also is trying to claim my bike now without going to an actual notary. I have the car and he has my bike. He claims to be a notary himself and he claims that he notarized my title from my bike and he now owns it. I signed the title, but it was not notarized at the time. I have done a lot of research on the subject and legally he cannot notarize any document that he is a party to. Also if he had it notarized anywhere else that means that I obviously wasn't present, again making it void. I told him that if he doesnt get me a 350 motor in good running condition that I would make sure that either his or the notary he went to would have their license revoked. He has yet to respond.

    A little background so I don't seem like a complete tool for doing this. Bear in mind I had someone with me who witnessed all of this. He told me that the car had a "fresh" 350 crate motor. He even told me so much that he installed it. I looked at it real well when I got it home and got the casting numbers and there's a VIN on the motor, red flag right there. It's from a 76-79 TRUCK. The trans, NOT a th350. It's a thm200, stock transmission. I had to replace a little 4 dollar seal on it (2 hour job) and found it was a different trans than he said. When I asked him about it he was playing dumb saying we traded "as is where is". So then he proceeds to tell me he somehow got the bike transferred into his name, which raised some more red flags. So basically he is trying to "steal" my bike, and I'm NOT going to let that happen.

    Okay, rant over.
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  2. #2
    RC Racer
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    Eeekk. This is one of lifes lessons learned the hard way. I would have ran vin numbers ahead of time or looked it over real well before trading. That does stink though it sounds like he is trying to rip you off or the guy doesnt know much about cars and told you what the previous owner told the guy you just traded from. But the thing that strikes me most odd is how you did not notice the engine being wrong. A fresh crate engine and one from a late 70's truck look different. Good luck though.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by POD87
    Eeekk. This is one of lifes lessons learned the hard way. I would have ran vin numbers ahead of time or looked it over real well before trading. That does stink though it sounds like he is trying to rip you off or the guy doesnt know much about cars and told you what the previous owner told the guy you just traded from. But the thing that strikes me most odd is how you did not notice the engine being wrong. A fresh crate engine and one from a late 70's truck look different. Good luck though.
    It would be hard to check the vin on an old project care. more than likely the engine has been changed any number of times
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  4. #4
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    Actually it depends on the state that you are in. I know for a FACT in Texas AND in Oklahoma that both drivers have to be present in order to change the name on a title. If one of the parties is not available via out of state or deployed then they have to contact the original title holder for permission to change the name.

    And as far as the car, I would have checked everything on it before I even turned the engine. I know a 76-79 truck engine and a 350 crate doesn't sound anywhere near the same nor would have the same amount of power. So a test drive would be best or even revving the engine a few times. As far as the tranny, actually driving it should prove itsself worthy.

    And lastly, you are right. He cannot by law and by restriction of his use of notarization is he authorized to notarize anything that has his name in it. So for him to break that rule would forfeit his licence and can land him some jail time for trying to commit a fraudulant act. And if he got it notarized by someone else, then that person would have been in the same boat with a fraudulant act because you were not available for the notary. Just because he signs the title, doesn't mean he loses the title. I'll break it down even simpler for you to understand that theory. Give me one of your checks and i'll write it out for 100K and sign your name on it and have it addressed to me. Lets see how far that check would go...or better yet. The deed to your house. The agreement to your appartment. Or your title to your car, boat, or bike. In plain terms, a plain signature isn't everything.

    And lastly, ALWAYS, and I mean ALWAYS, write a bill of sales and or an agreement. List of what items were suppose to be in whatever the sale is of and both of you sign it AND have it notarized. Without anything like that, you both are screwing eachother without a reach around.

    And my sources? My step dad is a lawyer for 15+ years. Grandmother was a banker for 40+ years with a notary license. My wife's family has 100+ years of automotive care experience. Thank you and thats my 2 cents.
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  5. #5
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    I found this about transfering a title in PA. I think they guy would be in trouble for fraudulently notarizing the title, however you may want to consult a lawyer about the car itself. I am not sure he would be charged with anything by telling you it had such and such motor. All he has to do is say he didnt tell you that and its your word versus his. Contact a lawyer in your state and spend the $100 to get a consultation.

    The following is needed to complete a Pennsylvania Transfer:
    Personal appearance of both the Seller(s) and Purchaser(s), unless the title was previously signed and NOTARIZED by the seller(s)
    Driver's License of both Seller(s) and Purchaser(s). Pennsylvania Driver's License is required for the purchaser.
    Current Proof of Pennsylvania Insurance
    Any Lienholder information, if applicable. IE: Name of Lienholder/Address of Lienholder and Lienholder's ID Number.
    Mileage of Vehicle
    Owner's Registration Card if registration is being transferred off another vehicle owned by the purchaser.
    Last edited by Jason_garrison; 10-28-2009 at 07:20 AM.
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  6. #6
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    Yeah that's why I put that in there before some troll monkey jumps on my 2 cents haha. But yeah even thought both of those signatures are on their without the notarization. The place usually wants both drivers present to witness the signing over. That's the only way I would see it being validated LEGALLY haha.
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  7. #7
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. streetdemon's Avatar
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    Exactly, in my state, the title eithe needs to be notarized OR both parties must be present. You also cannot notarize any document of which you are a party to. I have a bill of sale stating I sold the car to him, so if he in fact transferred the title into someone elses name then that would be illegal. If it's in his name, again, illegal because he notarized his own document. As far as a witness being thrown out in court, that's not true, I have also been texting him back and forth to resolve the issue, rather than calling, specifically with the purpose of having written documentation that he told me it had a 350 crate engine and 350 trans. If I have that conversation in text messages then it is him admitting that he lied to me about the specifications of the car. The guy is not too bright, and once I have acquired enough information I plan on presenting it to him in a way that he can do nothing but A. sign my bike back over to me, or B. He's going to pay for a new motor.

    I am not stupid, I know what I am doing. Honestly, I didn't care about the fact that it didn't have a 350 crate motor in it, and you are right you could tell by looking at it. I was just aggrivated about the fact that the motor the car DOES have is basically junk. There is no way he can legally own my bike right now.
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  8. #8
    Boone722
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    All may not be lost here.. In Pa he as a notary cannot do any work that will benefit him.Both parties must be present to comply with the state guide lines.I would as mentioned before contact a lawyer(they should give you a free consultation over the phone) Yes it is "buyer beware" but If he did his own title work,then you might have him.On the title thier is a place for the notary seal and witness(notary) to sign and verify the transaction.Good luck

    ^^^ My thoughts also.I posted to slow..

  9. #9
    RC Racer
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    that stinks man im sorry to hear so many shady people out there but whatever at least you got a nova post some pics lets see her and what kind of bike you give him? and if you have solid proof of the lies drag him to court have a field day make him pay for new motor and trans and dont forget about "pain and suffering" cause it sure does sound to me like your in pain and your suffering
    Last edited by dblrnut; 10-28-2009 at 12:31 PM.
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  10. #10
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. Nitronaught's Avatar
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    Man you get yourself into a pickle.
    1. did you make out a Bill of Sale? Hope not.
    2. You should have inspected the motor and the tranny before doing any trade. A th350 looks very different from the thm200.
    3. If it was a crate motor he should have a receipt for it. I would have asked for it.

    Now your best bet is to contact PA. DMV and see if you can get a copy of the title proving he notarized it himself. If he did the sale can be proven null and void in small claims court. Here is some contact info. I would jump on it immediately as for the longer it takes you to do so, the harder getting this trade/sale reversed will be.

    http://www.dmv.state.pa.us/contact_us/index.shtml
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  11. #11
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    Being a crate engine doesn't need to be a brand new block, does it? I thought they would use core trade ins to revamp and resell. 70s truck had ALOT of 350s in them.

  12. #12
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. streetdemon's Avatar
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    Thanks NN. I don't know that he necessarily notarized it himself, that's just what he told me. If he did then obviously its null and void. If he didn't, then he took my title and got it notarized without me being there, also making it null and void.
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  13. #13
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. streetdemon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by koolwhipman
    Being a crate engine doesn't need to be a brand new block, does it? I thought they would use core trade ins to revamp and resell. 70s truck had ALOT of 350s in them.
    When you buy a crate motor it is brand new. A remanufactured motor is different. He also said he ordered it from Summit. Last, I can't say for sure, but I think they may get rid of the VIN nimbers on those remanufactured motors. All motors that were originally in a car have a partial VIN number on them, matching the cars VIN number. Hence the term, "numbers matching".
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  14. #14
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. Nitronaught's Avatar
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    If you get in tuch with the DMV you can request a copy of the title. Hopefully you have a copy of the bill of sale as well.

    Yup if you were not present not only could the so called seller of the vehicle be in trouble, the notary can lose their credentials and also the witness can be sued for liable.

    Get a copy of that title and file with small claims court. Hopefully you will get Judge Judy.... loll.

    +1 Crate motors are new blocks, they may have a serial # stamped on them, but it would be totally different than any VIN and usually placed in a different location. This is for warranty purposes for the mfr of the crate motor.
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  15. #15
    RC Racer
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    Haha sounds like a repeat of what I originally said. And yes, a engine would have it's own serial number and not the VIN from a vehicle only because if you buy a new motor, how are they to assume the VIN of your vehicle? Sounds more like common sense to me that it would be it's own ID number.
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  16. #16
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    Why would you want a 77 Nova in the first place, haha. Lets hope you didn't have a nice bike. What was it?
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  17. #17
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. streetdemon's Avatar
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    I also just realized something else today. The title he sent me, which he never notarized (even thought he's a notary) and the car wasn't in his name, it was in his buddies mom's name. So that also would be another thing that would void the deal, the bill of sale he gave me said that he was selling me HIS car and if it wasn't in his name then he was selling me someone else's car.
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  18. #18
    RC Racer
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    Unless they had a contract between them stating that he could sell her car. Which he could have written up at any moment. And since he's a notary, he can put a older date for the signature to validate it. He's a bum tryin to rip ya off and got caught.
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