Set-up help from Steve Slayden

[pvalenti]

That part number is correct according to buytraxxas.com. Should be $3 at your LHS, that's what it sells for on buytraxxas.com anyway.

[SirSlash4x4]

Hi Steve,
I noticed you didn't have the Losi springs on your setup. Everyone on this forum seems to hate progressive rate springs. Have you had success with them? Would you recommend running the Losi springs?

[caltrigger75]

Thanks Steve and guys... Parts ordered!!

[BC Slasher]

hey steve our outdoor track is rough big jumps dry dusty,with loam.med traction at best.my question is wld bow ties b a good tire for 4x4?.calibers are so good i cant c bow tie workn better.i want a back up tire bcause if we water b4 heat or it rains abit it is thick heavy mud.my cali on my buggy werent so good in that stuff.i can tell by tread pattern bow ties must have lots of forward bite.wwhat about running cali on front bow in back???

[roadrunner6903]

hey steve. just about finished all the adjustments on my p.e. just a quick questions though. the tracks i run on are pretty smooth, clay. pretty high bight i think. they are fairly tight. not to tight because my e revo runs through it fine. my question is, what weight oil do you recommend for such tracks? i have whatever weight is stock in the front right now and i put the 5k in the rear per your suggestion. i also switche the blue carriers to the plastic ones for 2.5 degrees instead of 4.

[yeti as3]

Steve...first time out with the setup and it is dialed...thanks! Indoor clay around 50 deg. 45wt Losi oil, had to add a bit more preload to get the ride height close. I had 50k in the diff from before so I went with it. I was getting too much bite in the turns and rolling over (if I didn't save it) with Bowties so I switched to the Calibers. Like you said, the Calibers had a good compromise between forward and side bite.

[yeti as3]

OK, after a night of running I do have a question. As the night went on, the track had more bite and It was hooking up too good in the turns and rolling occasionally. What are some changes I can make if I have his issue next time. Thanks!

[Slaydaddy]

hoovdog, Hey it was good meeting you guys too! Yeah, I was turning pretty consistent 26 sec laps and I felt a 12-lap qualifier was totally doable. However, my truck kept going into fail safe and I was never able to complete an entire run. I chased and troubleshot all kinds of stuff all weekend and found that it appears to be bad cells in my packs. My radio gear and ESC/ motor all checked out perfect.

Anyway, the truck was sick when it wasn't shutting down. I've got it all fixed now. Getting all new ROAR legal hardcase packs.

[Slaydaddy]

sirslash, The springs I have in my setup, I actually like pretty well. If you get the right rate with progressives they work really well. Linear springs are great too. Go with what feels best for you.

[Slaydaddy]

BC Slasher, I basically look to the Bowtie to give me more rotation in the corners. It allows the rear to loosen up a bit and swing around the apex. It still has great forward bite though. So, I just use Calibers primarily, and then switch to bowties when I want to loosen the rear a bit.

[Slaydaddy]

roadrunner, tight high-bite smooth - I'd still use my base setup for the diffs. 10K/50K/5K. Maybe even 7K up front if the layout is very technical.

The plastic 2.5deg toe carriers would be good to try as well. I use them on small tracks.

[Slaydaddy]

yeti, I found that on bumpy high-bite surfaces the trucks likes less physical/ mechanical steering angle. Switching back to big block tire tread and harder compounds also works great. Try running Pro-Line Switches or the TRX BF's. If the track is really causing traction roll, you could even try the hard compound Traxxas tires.


This is what I do with my steering. When the bite comes up strong and the truck is oversteering and or traction rolling, I'll switch to the rear steering link holes on the steering knuckles (plastic knuckles only)

- this requires you to run the plastic steering knuckles, which has the alternate steering link location. I do not know why the aluminum knuckles do not have this hole.

- you can also relax the sway bars too as if they are too tight or stiff, then it will make the truck difficult (twitchy) to drive on a surface like that. bumpy, highbite, clay...

[BC Slasher]

thx for the tire info steve.i have another que.i just bought the sway bars.ran them last race .i wuznt as fast as i wuz the previous 4 races with no sways.the track is stupid loose.jumps are made with some sand and so are prts of the track.all the soft loose dirt gets pushed outside the line then gets bumpy dry and still loose.with that said,maybe i just had a bad day.but i am super consistant with the truck.so if the track is so loose do i even need sways?

[rixdafix]

Thanks for the great info Steve. Amazing what 1 or 2 millimeters adjustment on the sway bars do too. Still need a center diff (I'll paypal $50 for a new one shipped to St.Louis right now) and some camber fine tuning but man oh man what a difference.

[yeti as3]

yeti,
This is what I do with my steering. When the bite comes up strong and the truck is oversteering and or traction rolling, I'll switch to the rear steering link holes on the steering knuckles (plastic knuckles only)

- this requires you to run the plastic steering knuckles, which has the alternate steering link location. I do not know why the aluminum knuckles do not have this hole.

I fount that STRC offers the alum knuckles with the 2nd hole like the plastic ones Got em on order. Thx.

[roadrunner6903]

hey steve what shock oil do you recommend on the big bores? same as the regular shocks?

[rcgeek]

I just had my first race day with this set up and WOW! It is much better than stock. I also use the proline shocks, which are amazing. i didn't win the Amain, but I made it into it and finished 8th out of 17 trucks. I am happy with that! i still have a lot of room for improvement in the driving department, but I am getting better and this set up lets me drive my truck much more aggressively.

[sewerdog]

what oil weight are you using in those prolines

[pvalenti]

hey steve what shock oil do you recommend on the big bores? same as the regular shocks?

I'm not Steve obviously but you are in the set-up thread. Just go back to the first page dude. He's using the big bores and his oil is 60 front and 55 rear. When asked what brand of oil he uses Steve has replied that he usually uses Associated oils.

[jnelson214]

Hello everyone... I was curious what has been done to solve the issue with the rear diff oil leaking out? I added 10k into last night and today there was a nice amount seeping out at the drive shaft bearings?? I read that the rear diff case isnt sealed but what other options do we have besides having oil drip out and just be messy???

THanks

BTW... I love this truck!!!

[candbron]

Hello everyone... I was curious what has been done to solve the issue with the rear diff oil leaking out? I added 10k into last night and today there was a nice amount seeping out at the drive shaft bearings?? I read that the rear diff case isnt sealed but what other options do we have besides having oil drip out and just be messy???

THanks

BTW... I love this truck!!!

You probably need to replace the blue gasket...part #TRA5581

[jnelson214]

You probably need to replace the blue gasket...part #TRA5581

OK, I am going to check it now..

THanks

[Slaydaddy]

bc slasher, I prefer to use the say bars in most conditions, but I wouldn't necessarily say that they are going to be great for everyone. Some may prefer a more relaxed feel from their truck.

I actually like sway bars in loose or slick conditions, because when it's loose, it's generally difficult to get ample response out of the chassis. Sway bars definitely help with this.

Most of your traction is going to come from your tires anyway. Chassis roll and weight shift more or less enhances the traction that the tires are providing. What that means is that you're going to feel the effects of sway bars more so with higher grip.


With that being said, when it's loose, sway bars aren't necessarily going to take much traction away, and in some cases they may even feel like they improve traction due to the faster response. Either way, they will still tighten up the chassis and improve response.


So, if you're happy with the feel and response of your truck without them, then stick with that and look to tires for your traction.


Ride height, camber, shock settings, sway bars, etc... all help to fine-tune traction, so don't neglect those settings. However, the right tires for your particular conditions is really what needs to be resolved first for your traction issues.

Hope this helps.

[0ld5k00l]

You probably need to replace the blue gasket...part #TRA5581

Actually it's part number 5381. The o-rings in 5581 are too small.

[candbron]

I have used TRA5581 before.
It is made for the JATO but is the same thing at half the price.

http://www.rcplanet.com/Traxxas_Diff..._p/tra5581.htm

All you will need is the 2 blue o-rings and the diff gasket from the package.

[0ld5k00l]

I have used TRA5581 before.
It is made for the JATO but is the same thing at half the price.

http://www.rcplanet.com/Traxxas_Diff..._p/tra5581.htm

All you will need is the 2 blue o-rings and the diff gasket from the package.

No it's not the same. The blue o-rings are a different size in 5581. They are smaller due to the smaller outdrives on the Jato. Use what the exploded view calls for which is 5381.

5581 may still work, but you would have to stretch the o-ring causing it to wear out prematurely.

[candbron]

Okay.... I give up, that may be, however I know the main gasket fits.

#5381 it is.

Regardless this is the wrong thread for this.

[caltrigger75]

I finally got the 2458A and 4957R Spings and it feels better already...

BTW - ARE these springs ultrashock springs....coz they fitted straight onto my big bore retainers...no need for other parts...is that right?

Thanks again guys and Slay..

[pvalenti]

Yes they ARE Ultra springs and you SHOULD need the ultra retainers as well. If you read back through the last few pages we discussed this already and Slayden said you need to use the Ultra retainers.

[storm800]

Mine were a direct fit also, no need for new spring retainers.

[angrymelon]

Same here, the ultra retainers actually fit sloppy. The stock ones on the big bores fit the Tmaxx and Slash 2wd springs perfectly.

-melon

[pvalenti]

...except (again as Slayden has stated) the springs rub the shock body! However, if in your extensive experience you guys know better than him...go with it!

[Slaydaddy]

It's all good. It's easy to get them all mixed up. I've been around them for a long time and can tell just by looking. LOL

Let me try to explain the differences:
- Ultra Shocks = plastic shock (used to be black back in the day, now they are gray)
- Big Bore Shocks (aluminum, Teflon coated and hard anodized)
- The Ultra shock bodies are actually larger in outer diameter than the Big Bores. This requires a larger inner diameter on the spring and spring collar.
- The Big Bore shock bodies have springs and collars made just for them. They are smaller in diameter to just fit the Big Bore shock bodies.
- The springs and collars from the Ultra shocks will work on the Big Bores.
- The collars from the Big Bores will not fit the Ultra shock bodies. The Big Bore springs will slide over the Ultra shock bodies though, but you must use an Ultra shock collar.




The Ultra shock springs feel a tad firmer than the Big Bore springs and they seem to hold ride height better and seem to be a better all around spring than the Big bore springs, IMO. The Big Bore springs tend to want more preload and at times depending on weight of the vehicle and track conditions, the Big Bore springs seem to need A LOT of preload. I prefer to use the Ultra springs as they feel more solid and consistent in their duties.

The side benefit to running the Ultra springs is that they are large enough to not rub the shock body and they look more pronounced on the vehicle.

You can use Ultra shock springs with the smaller collars but they don't fit properly, but will work.


I recommend to use the appropriate Ultra collars and retainers with the Ultra springs. The collars slide over the Big Bore shock body pretty loosely, but this has no effect on anything. If anything at all, it's better because it's resistant to dirt binding the larger collars and springs against the shock body.


Anyway, thats about all there is to it. Lots of different springs and combos will "work". However, this is what I'm using.

I keep linear and progressive rate springs in my box. I would suggest the progressives on smoother tracks with big jumps and the linears are good for really rough tracks.

Linear spring examples: Rustler, Stampede, Bandit
Progressive spring examples: Slash, Slash 4x4 & Option T-Maxx/ E-Maxx springs


I keep all of these in my pit box, front and rear and tune accordingly.

The springs I generally start with is in my base setup. Which is generally Rustler/ Stampede linear fronts on the front and Maxx progessives on the back.

I've been known to switch to Rustler/ Stampede linear rears on the back.



Hope this helps!

[Dirt Dealer]

WOW That clarification of Ultra Shocks helped me see the picture. I thought "Ultra Shocks" were an upgrade not the stock shock that have been on traxxas trucks for years. Thanks Steve. Sometimes it's the simple stuff that helps most.

[MVB]

partly thanks to the tips found here in this topic. I have a 3rd place in the dutch national winter rallycup 2009-2010, unlimited class.
and a 3rd place in today's last race, A-main

setup: part steve slayden but no centerdiff, no swaybars and i use losi springs.

[SirSlash4x4]

cool taht you were able to acomplish it without the center diff. Must've been good driving! Otherwise I will be running the losi springs too, lots of people have had success with them.

[jnelson214]

Thanks for the help with the Oil leaking issue... I did find the problem and it was a simple o-ring that was bent a bit.....

OK so had it out this weekend and since I have added the center diff 50k/ rear diff is 10k and front diff is 15k
and changed the
springs REAR progressive and
Front SLash 2wd springs
shocks rear 50wt
front 60wt
Sway bars are 5mm front and rear
pretty close to everything that slayden had written in the set up in this thread.... what i have seen that is different is

BODY ROLL.... I think it is worse than my stock set up? does this happen from the center diff? when I throttle threw a turn it flips... when I brake or release the throttle the front dips and the rear wheel comes off the ground like a ENDO,,,,, haha

what else can I do to help with body roll?

[CaptCarnage]

what is your ride height? mine stays flat on the ground diving into turns off a jump or speed turns. running at at 26-28mm from floor to bottom of skid late with 2s 5000. clay track. just a thought?

[tchrstm]

While I'm waiting for rear axles, I'm switching to the Slayden setup. Appreciate the guidance Steve, great thread.

What brand diff oils are you guys using? There doesn't seem to be consistent units of measure (CST vs Wt) between brands, or even within a brand. I bought an Associated 10k CST diff oil that came in a bottle, then saw a cup of 10k Wt, whats the diff ( )?

I found a couple threads here and on other forums that explain CST vs Wt, which I get, but those were geared more for shock oils. What SHOULD I be using? Or, Steve, what are you using?

[marksp]

new racing tires - http://forums.radiocontrolzone.com/s...d.php?t=258933