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  1. #1
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    Why is everyone ditching the Velineon?

    Just wondering what the advantage was in swapping out the included system for a Castle or Novak system? I've used all three brands(Castles in my 18Ts, Novaks in various things over the last 15 years, and Velineons in my MERVs). I just got a Slash 4x4, ran two packs through it, have my 3s lipos on order, and was just wondering if there were any major issues with the stock ESC/motor combo. I am only bashing around the yard, etc, not track racing, and I plan on leaving the slipper in it for that reason.

  2. #2
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    Heat issues are inevitable with the VXL on 3cells. Some may argue this point but I don't mind getting yelled at
    Drive it like you stole it or leave it shelved

  3. #3
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    it's actually the vxl-3s i was happy to get rid of for a mmp. the velineon is a rockin' motor and teamed great with the mmp.. BUT... being that the mmp can take sensored motors i switched to a novak and i'm very happy with that combo. if i wasn't so type 'a', i woulda just run the mmp & velineon and have been happy with that.

  4. #4
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    Mine in my 4x slash was problematic sense day 1. I upgraded to a mmm pro only to increase its reliability.

  5. #5
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    and which motor do you recommend for the use at 3S, MMM 2650KV?
    E-Maxx, MMM, 4S - 6S, Akula :-)

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by beaufort12
    and which motor do you recommend for the use at 3S, MMM 2650KV?
    That's what I run in my Slash. Its sweet spot is 4 cell though. 3s is incredibly fast too but 4 is just that much better
    Drive it like you stole it or leave it shelved

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by beaufort12
    and which motor do you recommend for the use at 3S, MMM 2650KV?
    yes ... the 2650 is what i run. no heat probs.. on 3s you will love it. i run 3s & 4s with 54/16 &54/18 gears. lots of power. lots of speed. and you can tune it to how you drive. was the best upgread i have done on both of my 4x4....

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by bill c
    yes ... the 2650 is what i run. no heat probs.. on 3s you will love it. i run 3s & 4s with 54/16 &54/18 gears. lots of power. lots of speed. and you can tune it to how you drive. was the best upgread i have done on both of my 4x4....
    I agree. Your gearing is a tooth higher than mine. I run 15/54 on the track, offroad, and the street on 3 and 4 cells. I love this setup minus the shafts twisting 24/7. That could be my heavy throttle finger though.
    Drive it like you stole it or leave it shelved

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by pedecrawler
    I agree. Your gearing is a tooth higher than mine. I run 15/54 on the track, offroad, and the street on 3 and 4 cells. I love this setup minus the shafts twisting 24/7. That could be my heavy throttle finger though.
    yes the shafts.....but all in all its the only way to go. i twist up a shaft or two in a weekend. just try to hit it easy. but its hard to do. would not put anything but a mmm in them..

  10. #10
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    I got tired of hitting thermal on my vxl system and that was on 2s. Put in my MMM 2650 and she's been running cool ever since and that's here in sunny SoCal where temps aren't always the most conducive to heat sensitive electronics.
    Slash 4x4 PE - MMM 2650, Losi 8ight 2.0 Shocks

  11. #11
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    I have heat issues like others have mentioned previously. This and that there is no programmability on the stock esc. I like to run mostly 3s and on track days 2s. If I run my 2s solidly for 15 minutes or so the motor is pretty steamy, and on 3s it only takes 7 or 8 minutes to be cookin.

    Plus the esc likes to be glitchy. I don't know if it is just me or not but I have had 3 esc's glitch on me when racing where it will just shut off during a corner... then I'll wait a couple seconds and it will kick back on.

    I just got tired of this type of stuff, now I have a MMP and my Kershaw 8L should be here today! I sold my brand new replacement esc from Traxxas on eBay for $80 so the combo I got really only cost me $70 (motor) + $40 (MMP off towerhobbies w/ $20 discount and sold esc). So $110 for the combo... I figured I couldn't go wrong, lol. Now I can even run up to 6s is I wanted, I like having the options I guess.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkaiser
    I have heat issues like others have mentioned previously. This and that there is no programmability on the stock esc. I like to run mostly 3s and on track days 2s. If I run my 2s solidly for 15 minutes or so the motor is pretty steamy, and on 3s it only takes 7 or 8 minutes to be cookin.

    Plus the esc likes to be glitchy. I don't know if it is just me or not but I have had 3 esc's glitch on me when racing where it will just shut off during a corner... then I'll wait a couple seconds and it will kick back on.

    I just got tired of this type of stuff, now I have a MMP and my Kershaw 8L should be here today! I sold my brand new replacement esc from Traxxas on eBay for $80 so the combo I got really only cost me $70 (motor) + $40 (MMP off towerhobbies w/ $20 discount and sold esc). So $110 for the combo... I figured I couldn't go wrong, lol. Now I can even run up to 6s is I wanted, I like having the options I guess.

    mine did the same thing. but it required you unplug the battery to get it to run again.

  13. #13
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    Because the Velineon system is to a 4x4 like the Titan/XL5 was to the 4x2. Great for the first day, useless on the second.
    ERevoMMM2200
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  14. #14
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    I'll mention this hoping a Traxxas employee hears me.

    It would be awesome if the next generation VXL esc was really a rebadged MMP (or skip the rebadging?) then the next VXL motor was about the same as it is now but with a sensor port. I'd be in heaven with such a combo!

  15. #15
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    I actually decided to give the VXL a try and see how I could get it to run. I'm geared 11/54, or 10, I can't remember, whatever is the smallest that will fit, , and am running 44mph on 3s. This is with Losi Zombie's, which are roughly the same height as stock. Temps so far have been descent, at under 160, but that's with a 65 Ambient. I think with a hole in the body, and a heatsink, it might be doable for summer. But, by comparison, my 4.5 will run 40, on 2s, and run cooler. IMO The VXL is runnable, but if you want any real speed, it's not.
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  16. #16
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    For me it was a reliability issue as well. I got tired of worrying so much about heat and the early LVC problem was killing my fun both on the track and for bashing sessions.

    I went with a MMP/Novak HV4.5 Pro set-up...on 15/54 gearing outside and 12/54 inside. I couldn't be happier. Add to it the fact that the MMP is programmable...and it was a no-brainer. I sold my Velineon system for $50 to a guy at the local track and spent about $250 on the new stuff...so about $200 for the upgrade. Nobody would argue that my truck is one of the faster ones at our local track. I (on the other hand) am NOT one of the fastest DRIVERS (yet). But I keep trying anyway! lol
    Paul Valenti

    Slash 4X4 #25 (Mark Jenkins)

  17. #17
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    sorry totally new to electric....is the mmp 2650 a motor combo or just the esc?

  18. #18
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    I burnt the stock ESC up on a darn NIMH. I think that is why Traxxas replaces these for next to nothing within a reasonable time frame.

    Its really too bad. going MMM is way to expensive when you have to dump quite alot into the vehicle as it is.

    I never plan on going over 2c. since i break stub axles non stop on 5000NIMH.
    But it would be nice to be able to run the overtray without overheating.
    fans installed.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by guidoz1
    sorry totally new to electric....is the mmp 2650 a motor combo or just the esc?

    No problem!

    MMP = mamba monster pro (speed control)

    2650 I believe is a big Castle/Neu motor.

  20. #20
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    would the mmp work with velenion motor?...cause my stock esc sux

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by guidoz1
    would the mmp work with velenion motor?...cause my stock esc sux

    Absolutely. IMO the MMP is about the nicest esc out today.

  22. #22
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    n e links to where to buy one?

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottStaypuff
    No problem!

    MMP = mamba monster pro (speed control)

    2650 I believe is a big Castle/Neu motor.
    MMP= Mamba Max Pro
    MMM= Mamba Monster
    Drive it like you stole it or leave it shelved

  24. #24
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    Heat, Heat & more Heat!!!!!!!!!!

  25. #25
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    ok...what is a bad temp for esc to reach?..srry for all the ?'s

  26. #26
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    In my experience the Velineon can barely handle 2s Lipo or 7-cell nimh on 70 degree fahrenheit day...running on medium-sized open track! 3s and the motor hits 205 degrees F, ESC 155 degrees F....after only a couple battery packs the motor dies and/or the ESC burns up. Traxxas needs to make a good 3s BL setup for the Slash 4x4 or their quality control needs lots of improvement. These problems have all been while running stock 13/54 gearing or lower. Couple guys have tried 11/54 and still had similar problems, plus the shape (tooth profile) of the pinions below 12 tooth causes them to not mesh as well and they wear out quicker.

    Several friends have burnt up Velinion motors and ESCs on only 2s. Several others only lasted a couple runs on 3s before the motor died. Another Velineon the bearings went bad after only a couple batteries. We replaced the bearings and then a couple runs later the motor lost all torque and would barely move the truck. When summer hits the VXL are really going to start failing due to heat.

    Most of them have moved on to MMM and 2650 motor (with 3s Lipo)....seems like the only way not to have heat issues. Cutting out the windows and adding fans to motor and ESC have not helped significantly.

    Love my Slash 4x4, but am looking for my long-term motor/ESC setup and don't know what to do yet.... 3s is sooo much more fun than 2s!!!
    Last edited by Natedog; 05-10-2010 at 07:19 PM.

  27. #27
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    I ve had the velineon on my rustler vxl and my Slash 2X4 and now I just bought a slash 4X4. I ve never had a problem with my Velineon system even though I ve ran 2C 4000 and 3 3600 lipos from got2gorc.

    I ve ran 4 lipos through the Slash 2X4 at the track at norcal hobbies on a practice day and did not have one problem with over heating, thermal shutdown or anything.

    So, yea I ve had really good luck so far with the system. I used in order

    2C 4000 got2gorc lipo
    3c 3600 got2gorc lipo
    2c 6500 maxxamps lipo
    NEX 3c 5000 lipo (I don't even know this brand)

    ran all these in one day and had no problems at all.

  28. #28
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    I will not bash on the VXL motor. it is a good brushless motor. Ive paired my VXL 3500kv with my MMM esc in a stampede on 3 cell lipo. the Mamba esc really woke up the VXL motor. Ive never seen one perform so well before
    Drive it like you stole it or leave it shelved

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natedog
    In my experience the Velineon can barely handle 2s Lipo or 7-cell nimh on 70 degree fahrenheit day...running on medium-sized open track! 3s and the motor hits 205 degrees F, ESC 155 degrees F....after only a couple battery packs the motor dies and/or the ESC burns up. Traxxas needs to make a good 3s BL setup for the Slash 4x4 or their quality control needs lots of improvement. These problems have all been while running stock 13/54 gearing or lower. Couple guys have tried 11/54 and still had similar problems, plus the shape (tooth profile) of the pinions below 12 tooth causes them to not mesh as well and they wear out quicker.

    Several friends have burnt up Velinion motors and ESCs on only 2s. Several others only lasted a couple runs on 3s before the motor died. Another Velineon the bearings went bad after only a couple batteries. We replaced the bearings and then a couple runs later the motor lost all torque and would barely move the truck. When summer hits the VXL are really going to start failing due to heat.

    Most of them have moved on to Mamba Max Pro and 2650 motor (with 3s Lipo)....seems like the only way not to have heat issues. Cutting out the windows and adding fans to motor and ESC have not helped significantly.

    Love my Slash 4x4, but am looking for my long-term motor/ESC setup and don't know what to do yet.... 3s is sooo much more fun than 2s!!!
    I believe all of this! Mine and my buddies gets hot real quick on 3s and we have to watch it carefully (even on stock gearing). I'm sure if we didn't watch it and tried to run it through a whole pack that it would fry something.

    I would love to watch somebody drive a 4x4 on 3s and not have heat issues. I hear of some people who are able to do it but I would like to see how they are really driving the truck...they have to be going easy.

    The only way I have been able to keep reasonable temps on 3s is to have a heatsink and fan (still doesn't fully solve heat issues). But now I have a Kershaw 8L that showed up today and a MMP. Can't wait to test it tomorrow!!! Should help a lot with temps from other reviews I have heard about a similar combo.

  30. #30
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    I posted this in another thread, but I've had zero issues with my stock setup. I can run 2s racing in 5min heats with 15/54 gearing and it only hits temps in the low 160's. On 3s using 13/54 it's still only in the low 160's after a 5min heat. When bashing around it gets into the 170's. Perhaps I'm just lucky or my religious maintenance with bearings has kept the truck running smooth and keeps the VXL setup from having to work as hard. I've posted multiple videos of me racing my truck at the track and bashing at the local BMX track. Maybe the hardpacked dirt helps and the guys having temp issues are trying to run on difficult surfaces like grass or sand?

    BMX track on 3s... I can go through two packs without excessive heat driving it like this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwN8dSxXZuU

    This race was on 3s as well, since at this track it's an open class for the 4x4:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2V4XyUxkXQ

    That said, I ordered an MMP and pre-ordered a new Ballistic 4.5t motor. I wanted something that would be faster than the VXL setup for racing on 2s at tracks that don't allow 3s. I also wanted the programmable features of the MMP.

    I think I'll just hang onto the Velineon setup to install into something else, or as a spare in case something happens to the setup I have coming.
    Last edited by turbowop; 05-10-2010 at 07:33 PM.
    Turbo in the front, groceries in the back.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by ARCTIC SLASH
    same with me. i got my MMP and my vxl motor woke up. i run with 0 timing to keep temps cool and it gives it a lot more torque. i totally disagree with anyone who says the vxl is a better speed control after getting the MMP.
    Shoot bro... I cranked up my VXL with my MMM in a Stampede i modded for strictly street passes. It was so powerful on 23/76 gearing, it SNAPPED a titanium locker my buddy made for me. i had been running the locker with the vxl and the Kershaw 9L for awhile with no issues. it was wicked though. it almost pulled off the ERevo backflip from a wheelie.
    Drive it like you stole it or leave it shelved

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by pedecrawler
    MMP= Mamba Max Pro
    MMM= Mamba Monster

    Hah! How did I screw that up?

    How about MMP = small and MMM = big?

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nissanguy8
    I ve had the velineon on my rustler vxl and my Slash 2X4 and now I just bought a slash 4X4. I ve never had a problem with my Velineon system even though I ve ran 2C 4000 and 3 3600 lipos from got2gorc.

    I ve ran 4 lipos through the Slash 2X4 at the track at norcal hobbies on a practice day and did not have one problem with over heating, thermal shutdown or anything.

    So, yea I ve had really good luck so far with the system. I used in order

    2C 4000 got2gorc lipo
    3c 3600 got2gorc lipo
    2c 6500 maxxamps lipo
    NEX 3c 5000 lipo (I don't even know this brand)

    ran all these in one day and had no problems at all.
    On the 4x2 it was fine for me....but I never ran 3s until it was in my 4x4...but from what I experienced it seems it might be ok on 3s in 2wd Slash.

  34. #34
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    at the local track at Norcal hobbies a few weeks ago, I was able to wheelie half the back straightaway coming off the hill and stabbing the throttle!

  35. #35
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    the stock velinion motor is a very good motor. the only thing that I dont like is the velinion esc with its crappy LVC and no tuning options..

    I ran my slash 4x4 only on 2s in these setups.

    stock velinion motor + esc.
    MMP + velinion motor
    MMP + Novak HV 4.5 motor

    you dont here me saying that the HV 4.5 motor runs much cooler, because it just doesnt do that in my truck. I read the same temps as my MMP + VXL setup.

    the only real advantage that the MMP has over the VXL esc is a good LVC and tuning options

    the only real advantage that the NOVAK HV motors have over the VXL motor is that they are sensored and have a lot of more torque low end
    slash 4x4 VXL, Novak HV4.5, MMP

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by turbowop
    I posted this in another thread, but I've had zero issues with my stock setup. I can run 2s racing in 5min heats with 15/54 gearing and it only hits temps in the low 160's. On 3s using 13/54 it's still only in the low 160's after a 5min heat. When bashing around it gets into the 170's. Perhaps I'm just lucky or my religious maintenance with bearings has kept the truck running smooth and keeps the VXL setup from having to work as hard. I've posted multiple videos of me racing my truck at the track and bashing at the local BMX track. Maybe the hardpacked dirt helps and the guys having temp issues are trying to run on difficult surfaces like grass or sand?

    BMX track on 3s... I can go through two packs without excessive heat driving it like this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwN8dSxXZuU
    5 min heats are totally different than running through a 5000mah 2s1p or 3s1p lipo....we usually run all out having friendly racing and plenty of fender rubbing....maintaining a higher average speed than your bash session. What were the ambient temps when you recorded these motor and esc temps?
    Last edited by Natedog; 05-11-2010 at 02:45 AM.

  37. #37
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    Although ambient temps of the day in the video were lower, I've had the same results with ambient temps in the low 70's.

    The last practice session I had at the RC track I ran through full 5400mah packs and saw temps in the mid 170's with a lot of constant driving, but ambient temps were in the low 60's.

    I don't doubt that it will get worse come summertime, but I don't think it's nearly as bad as some of the whiners on this site make it out to be. People seem to think that even 160 degree temps are bad, when really, that's about ideal IMO.
    Turbo in the front, groceries in the back.

  38. #38
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    the thing is, you have to account for where you measure your temps and the accuracy of your temp gun... also the emissivity of the surface you are temping.. if its 170 on the outside.. i KNOW its hotter inside.. and 180-190.. thats too hot.. 200 isnt a magical number at which damage will occur.. but at 199 you can run forever... its a cumulative effect, and repeated abuse will lead to failure.. I have returned more brushless motors than i care to remember... Living in Vegas, we tend to use them up a bit quicker than someone in teh NW or upper east coast...

    In 2 weeks time, the ambient temps where I live will be 40 degrees hotter than yours... you dont for one second believe that 40 isnt going to translate into dangerous temps for a VXL motor? That fact is, the VXL is a good motor in a lighter, smaller truck.. its just not a big enough motor nor efficient enough to be a real good daily basher in one of these trucks...

    Environment, as well as driving style also play a huge role... you cant just discount ALL of these people who have seen temp issues already.... It will probably happen to you in a month or 2... I hope not.. i hope you got one that will just run and run.. i had a 4600 that was like that.. just would not overheat... but the shaft snapped.. LOL..

    it all boils down to not wanting to worry about it.. I know for certain i could install a MMP and 5.5HV, run 3s, in grass with talons for 45 minutes with ambient temps in the 80s to 90s and still temp out at 140.. i know, because I did it.. you cant do that with the little VXL motor.. its not good enough..
    Last edited by DrFizz2k1; 05-11-2010 at 03:10 AM.
    Slash 2wd w/ Novak
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  39. #39
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    I guess I'm glad I don't live in Vegas then. I'll be there for July 4th weekend this year and am looking forward to having fun, but not so much the heat.

    Anyway, I just wanted to share my experiences with the stock stuff. For the way I bash, and for my short 5min heats when racing, it seems to hold up as long as the weather isn't in the triple digits. And on 2s I have no issues at all. You guys do bring up good points though.
    Turbo in the front, groceries in the back.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by turbowop
    I guess I'm glad I don't live in Vegas then. I'll be there for July 4th weekend this year and am looking forward to having fun, but not so much the heat.

    Anyway, I just wanted to share my experiences with the stock stuff. For the way I bash, and for my short 5min heats when racing, it seems to hold up as long as the weather isn't in the triple digits. And on 2s I have no issues at all. You guys do bring up good points though.

    SWEET!!! We'll be jumping the fireworks stand this year at the LHS on the 3rd maybe.. you should come by.. HAHA.. its a blast, but it WILL be hot...
    Slash 2wd w/ Novak
    Rusty w/ Castle

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