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  1. #1
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    Novak 4.5 running hot!? going to try this....

    So my 4.5 was hitting 165ish with either 14/52 or 13/52. No heatsink or fan yet. A very knowledgeable racer (has a past nat title also) told me that he just set up a 4x4 with around a 17 pinion. He can't remember but will find out.
    SO....he said I may be way undergeared and possible spinning the motor too fast, thus generating excess heat. Kinda came to this conclusion because the was no temp change between a 13 or 14 pinion. I'm going to try a 17t pinion asap. I have to work o/t and won't make it to the track this wekend though :/
    Btw...all my trucks are meticulous and everything is smooth as butter.
    Anybody try this?

  2. #2
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    Keeping your spur the same & going up in number of teeth on your pinion will raise your temps.
    Censorship is wrong

  3. #3
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    Won't work. I was seeing high temps with a 14t pinion and they dropped considerably when I swapped in a 12t. Going up in pinion size will raise temps.
    Turbo in the front, groceries in the back.

  4. #4
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    I use this as a starting point for gearing help;
    http://www.comeseethis.com/gearing/Default.aspx

  5. #5
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    How do you have your esc setup ?

    Cheers
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeti as3
    So my 4.5 was hitting 165ish with either 14/52 or 13/52. No heatsink or fan yet. A very knowledgeable racer (has a past nat title also) told me that he just set up a 4x4 with around a 17 pinion. He can't remember but will find out.
    SO....he said I may be way undergeared and possible spinning the motor too fast, thus generating excess heat. Kinda came to this conclusion because the was no temp change between a 13 or 14 pinion. I'm going to try a 17t pinion asap. I have to work o/t and won't make it to the track this wekend though :/
    Btw...all my trucks are meticulous and everything is smooth as butter.
    Anybody try this?
    ive been trying to tell people this also but they just wont listen !!! they just say im wrong. but this is first hand experience for me 17/54 is the way to go for 2s on that motor !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!

  7. #7
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    Then explain why mine cooled down when I dropped to a 12t. I guess I don't really understand how mine runs cool geared lower and yours runs cooler geared higher?
    Turbo in the front, groceries in the back.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by turbowop
    Then explain why mine cooled down when I dropped to a 12t. I guess I don't really understand how mine runs cool geared lower and yours runs cooler geared higher?
    well all i can come up with is no two setups are identical.even with my 1/8 scale buggy, i can set it up exactly the same as another one but it is way different to drive.

  9. #9
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    could have something to do with how we drive also

  10. #10
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    Depends a lot on track type and driving style.
    A track that is open and fast will give cooler temps if you keep your motor speed a bit lower by gearing higher.
    A tight track that has you on and off the throttle a lot will favor lower gears so the motor doesn't work as hard.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mud Puppy
    Depends a lot on track type and driving style.
    A track that is open and fast will give cooler temps if you keep your motor speed a bit lower by gearing higher.
    A tight track that has you on and off the throttle a lot will favor lower gears so the motor doesn't work as hard.
    ^^ Finding out that this is a big factor. It is definitely true that being undergeared can create heat issues depending on circumstances.
    My ESC settings....no anything lol. No timing advance, punch control off, no drag brake, and 3.4 lipo cutoff.

  12. #12
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    it's amazing that Novak originally made these motors to run on 4s in monster trucks, and they will over heat on 2s and 3s in a slash 4x4, you would think you would be able to use a 20 tooth pinion, but its not the case, I run the 5.5 and find 14/54 to be my sweet spot, the highest i have gotten before temps would be an issue are 16/54. but thats just me, could be cause i run the garbage hv pro esc while i shop around for a good esc

  13. #13
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    also i run full sensored mode on the mmp the smartsense mode causes a rise in heat for me

  14. #14
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    I am considering trading my 550 4.5 Ballistic out for a 2650, i'm really not all that fascinated with this sensored motor but the hangup is i have not really had a good chance to test out different gearing. i plan to spend some time at the track tomorrow before making any final decisions.
    slash 4x4

  15. #15
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    So I don't have a 17t pinion, but decided to try my 15t with a 50t spur, which is in the ballpark. I don't know about temps because I didn't run it long enough. My stuttering issues got waaaay worse, and now the 50c LiPo that was in there has puffed about 2mm's. Awesome.

    This whole MMP/4.5t thing is really frustrating.
    Turbo in the front, groceries in the back.

  16. #16
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    So I was able to make it to the track with 1 batter pack for a test. I put the heatsink and fan on since the motor was out. Went from 13/52 to 17/52, didn't use the fan, kept timing on the motor stock (30*) and ran a pack. My bro said I was closer to 169* with 13/52. With 17/52 temps dropped to 140-145. Next week I will play with the motor timing (on motor)and a 16 or 18t pinion.

  17. #17
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. El Sob's Avatar
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    I am thinking or getting a Novak motor to rid myself of the heat problems that the VXL has. So is this not the motor to solve heat problems?

  18. #18
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    has anyone had any luck with a novak/ mmp combo? i see nothing but trouble with them. i have that combo my self but haven't tested it. waiting on my replacement mmp from castle. if i get troubles out of it with a ex bc ill sell it and get a mm 2650

  19. #19
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    I have run my mmp + novak hv 4.5 without problems. we use a cheap external bec from hobbywing " ubec 3-5A "
    we even use novaks 14mm tuning rotor and 18/50 gearing on large tracks




    we also use the large hobbywing cooling fan. its huge but the motor never gets above 110F



    mmp + hv is a great combo, with some tuning and tweaking I cant imagine a more fun to drive combo
    slash 4x4 VXL, Novak HV4.5, MMP

  20. #20
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    what batteries are you running?

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by MVB
    I have run my mmp + novak hv 4.5 without problems. we use a cheap external bec from hobbywing " ubec 3-5A "
    we even use novaks 14mm tuning rotor and 18/50 gearing on large tracks




    we also use the large hobbywing cooling fan. its huge but the motor never gets above 110F



    mmp + hv is a great combo, with some tuning and tweaking I cant imagine a more fun to drive combo
    Wow, the size of that track is crazy. That looks like a lot of fun. Weird surface as well. Astroturf? I can see why such different gearing is needed.
    Turbo in the front, groceries in the back.

  22. #22
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    yeah it was astroturf. but a bit to much sand if you ask me.
    top speed at that track was over 45 miles per hour.
    that was real crazy on that bumpy track.

    normaly the do 1/8 scale nitro races on that track.

    calibers m3 and bowties did well on astroturf.
    I would love to have some spirals but they do not exist for the short course trucks
    slash 4x4 VXL, Novak HV4.5, MMP

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2004neonsrt4
    what batteries are you running?
    5600mah 2s 50C hardcase ROAR legal
    slash 4x4 VXL, Novak HV4.5, MMP

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by keithy4129
    it's amazing that Novak originally made these motors to run on 4s in monster trucks, and they will over heat on 2s and 3s in a slash 4x4, you would think you would be able to use a 20 tooth pinion, but its not the case, I run the 5.5 and find 14/54 to be my sweet spot, the highest i have gotten before temps would be an issue are 16/54. but thats just me, could be cause i run the garbage hv pro esc while i shop around for a good esc
    Take any motor thats made to run 4s and run it on 2s and you will have heat issues. Its a bad setup, plain and simple. You can bandaid the problem by trying to gear it and what not, but its the wrong setup for that truck. Some people swear by it, but then again....some people dont know any better.

  25. #25
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    The Ballistic 550's aren't even rated to be used with anything past 3s, and they're marketed for use with the Havok Pro ESC that's only rated for 2s. So what is it that people don't know any better?
    Turbo in the front, groceries in the back.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by outkast187
    Take any motor thats made to run 4s and run it on 2s and you will have heat issues. Its a bad setup, plain and simple. You can bandaid the problem by trying to gear it and what not, but its the wrong setup for that truck. Some people swear by it, but then again....some people dont know any better.

    Sounds like the ones who dont know any better are the ones who havent run the combo.

    I ran the 5.5HV on 2s, 3s, 4s for months and never saw temps over 130s really.. i was geared 13/54 most of the time. I geared it as high as 20/50 and saw some raised temps.. but nothing overboard... now we're racing with a Neu 1409 1y and MMP. on 2s and have geared it down basically as much as we can and its still running 120 degrees after a 10 minute main... IN VEGAS! where its hot.... LOL.. cant run a 4s motor on 2s... Sometimes i forget why i still read these threads.. now i remember.. its for the comedy.. LOL..


    MVB.. Glad you are loving the combo.. i remember trying to find that motor in Europe for you.. LOL.. glad its working well..
    Slash 2wd w/ Novak
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  27. #27
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    I'm running an MMP/Novak HV4.5SC combo on 15/52 gearing, 5200Mah 2S 25C batteries w/Integy heatsink (no fan). After 20-25 minutes of practice at the local track I am seeing temps from 160 to 180 on the motor (ESC temps avg 109 and battery temps barely above ambient). The track is tight and I am constantly stabbing the throttle...so I think that the temps are a result of my crummy driving and NOT the set-up. I DO however plan to swap out the pinion for a 13t this week and see how that affects my temps.

    Still though...nothing to be really concerned about IMO. I'm not topping 200 or even getting near it and I'm running INSIDE a building with no AC (it gets HOT). All in all...I'm VERY satisfied with this motor/esc combo.

    FYI my ESC settings are - Cheat Mode w/0 timing, sensored only mode, Start Power-LOW, Brake Amt-100%, Drag Brake-20%, Punch Control-75%, LVC-3.2volts, BEC-6.0volts...
    Last edited by pvalenti; 06-21-2010 at 02:47 PM.
    Paul Valenti

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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by outkast187
    Take any motor thats made to run 4s and run it on 2s and you will have heat issues. Its a bad setup, plain and simple.
    Ummm... these motors are made to run on 2-3s. Novak recommends not exceeding 3s. The 4.5t motor, in particular, is advertised as being a great motor for short-course trucks using 2s lipo. For the previous version of these motors (The HV series, rather than Ballistic 550), they even recommended that the 4.5t motor is for 2s lipo ONLY.

  29. #29
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    I'm a fan of motor fans now. I used to not use them but they are cheap insurance and really seem to work.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrFizz2k1
    cant run a 4s motor on 2s... Sometimes i forget why i still read these threads.. now i remember.. its for the comedy.. LOL..

    Thats funny. Might want to try the search feature and look up outkast187 sometime and see the contributions to the great hobby of ours that he made before cutting him down.

    Motor efficiency and power output are 2 large factors in motor temperatures. Look at your setups and the RPMs they are turning to get the power needed.

    Or switch to a 2650 motor and be done with it.

    I run a 1509/1Y on 2s and its a pure beast on the track with great temps!
    Emaxx- truggy/CD conversion...

  31. #31
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    they even recommended that the 4.5t motor is for 2s lipo ONLY.
    After selling it for 3years as a 4s motor. They will still tell you that 4s is fine, as long as you know what you're doing.

    Motor efficiency and power output are 2 large factors in motor temperatures. Look at your setups and the RPMs they are turning to get the power needed.
    What's wrong with the RPM's he's turning?
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by nitrostarter
    Thats funny. Might want to try the search feature and look up outkast187 sometime and see the contributions to the great hobby of ours that he made before cutting him down.

    Motor efficiency and power output are 2 large factors in motor temperatures. Look at your setups and the RPMs they are turning to get the power needed.

    Or switch to a 2650 motor and be done with it.

    I run a 1509/1Y on 2s and its a pure beast on the track with great temps!

    Why do I need to look up anything? You cant make a comment like "any motor thats made to run 4s and run it on 2s and you will have heat issues" and follow it up with "Some people swear by it, but then again....some people dont know any better" and not expect someone who has actually run the combo to chime in on it.. I didn't call anyone out, nor did I intentionally insult anyone's intelligence. I don't believe in handing out false or bad information as a general rule.. and regardless of anyone's MASSIVE CONTRIBUTIONS to this hobby, what he said was WRONG. All i did was point that out.. If my sarcasm is too much for you, you need to take a vacation and relax.

    You cant try to correct me either and then say EXACTLY the same thing I said...

    "I run a 1509/1Y on 2s and its a pure beast on the track with great temps!"

    "we're racing with a Neu 1409 1y and MMP. on 2s and have geared it down basically as much as we can and its still running 120 degrees after a 10 minute main... IN VEGAS!"

    Last time I looked, the 1409 and 1509 were the same motor in different cans.. or maybe I read the Neu website wrong...

    Quote Originally Posted by Neu
    The 1400 series fits in applications that require a standard 36mm diameter motor. The 1400 shares the same rotor with the 1500 series motor. This motor is perfect for cars,trucks and buggies that need a 36mm motor.
    SO what you are saying then is... YOU can run a 4s motor on 2s and it's great, but because outkast187 says not to, nobody else should?

    The 1509/1y and 1409/1y are 17v max.. thats 4s... and then some...

    I don't care about someone join date, or post count... wrong information is wrong no matter where or who it comes from. I've said it before and I'll say it now.. If I post something wrong, I'll have no problem having someone correct me. In this case however, it's not me that is wrong.

    EDIT:
    I read what you wrote again.. You didn't correct me, my mistake...

    none the less, I was just being sarcastic, there is no tone to text... it doesnt always go over so well.. .

    I still stand by my correction though. He's just plain wrong.
    Last edited by DrFizz2k1; 06-22-2010 at 12:12 PM.
    Slash 2wd w/ Novak
    Rusty w/ Castle

  33. #33
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. nitrostarter's Avatar
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    I just have a problem with Novak taking advantage of the market and changing the marketing strategy and system specs of the HV motors all together to match the new market. Like previously stated, they pushed these high KV motors into the Monster Truck world for years! Sure they sold them but they weren't the best and were a pain to get cool... And now all of a sudden someone tried their motor in a Slash 4x4 and they market the HV motor specifically towards the SC world. Sure the motor works for some but it sure looks like more headache than anything(I say looks because I haven't tried it and won't try it).


    It's just a redundant subject that gets repeated with the same arguments on both sides every time!
    Emaxx- truggy/CD conversion...

  34. #34
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    ...and then Tekin stepped up and started making similar motors marketed towards 4WD SC. When I talked to Castle on the phone the guy told me they are also working on a 550 can SC motor to compete. Whether they stumbled across it or not, it works. And it works well enough that other companies are trying their hand at it as well.
    Turbo in the front, groceries in the back.

  35. #35
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    Well...it appears that I have spoken too soon (regarding loving my HV4.5ProSC motor)! Last Monday at practice I was running and the truck started behaving strangely. I noticed it making weird noises like something was rubbing or hanging up in the drive-train. While trying to figure it out I made a slow pass around the track and the truck just stopped. I had plenty of battery left, still had steering, but no forward or reverse at all.

    I had the marshal hand me the truck and immediately noticed that it smelled VERY HOT! I made a bee-line for the pits, took of the lid quickly and noticed that one of the motor wires had COME UN-SOLDERED! It still didn't occur to me what had happened. I inspected the wires and thought that maybe somehow my shrink-wrap job had allowed wires to touch where the motor wires plug into the ESC. So I re-soldered the motor wire and put the battery on the charger for a bit while I looked at the truck to make sure all was well.

    Rolling it on the table I noticed that it would go FORWARD but not backwards! I thought...okay this can either be drive-train or motor...so I loosened the motor up and moved it away from the spur gear and the truck could roll fine. Apparently what had happened was that the output shaft bearing had seized up causing the motor to heat up enough to unsolder the motor wire!!!!

    This makes the SECOND TIME in a month that this motor has been down and that I've had to contact NOVAK Customer Service. THIS TIME however they were VERY helpful. Instead of asking me to send them something before they sent me something (after I complained that they had made me do that the last time of course) the CS person voluntarily sent me a whole new end-bell/bearing assembly UPS 3-Day'd to my house on them.

    Now THAT is Customer Service! Apparently NOVAK sells new end bells with the bearing pressed in from the factory for about $20. I was just SURE that they were going to make me buy one of those assemblies. They didn't have to take care of me that way...and I really DO appreciate the vote of confidence. The last problem by the way was that the magnet came off the rotor (began to spin freely...somehow it's usually glued by some sort of compound to the rotor).

    Of course (being on the West Coast) they weren't open first thing for me (a Central US guy). So I had already been to EVERY bearing house in Kansas City looking for a 5mm x 13mm x 5mm radial bearing. Imagine my surprise when I found one for $5. They didn't have it ON HAND, so I had them order 2 of them. Being a creature of excess, I also ordered one off of BOCA Bearings (offline) when I got home, just before calling NOVAK.

    However...the most surprising development came from one of our local bearing houses. The BEARING in the NOVAK motor which can supposedly support 60,000+ RPM is an ABEC1 rated bearing!? WHAT??? At first I was FLOORED. The guy then explained to me that since the motor doesn't spin that fast ALL THE TIME...it MAY not have been as detrimental as I had originally thought. Still...if you guys are going to replace the bearing, good luck finding a better grade one. The ONLY better bearing that I could find was (of course) on NOVAK's site and it's spec'd at SAE and not METRIC. Hard to tell if the thing will fit or not. I tried converting the specs and still was unsure. I'm sure that I could call NOVAK and find out. In any case...it's just under $10 and it's a hybrid stainless/ceramic ABEC5 bearing.

    Certainly something to consider IF it'll fit since I think that the motor might never have failed IF the bearing were better suited to HIGH RPM's!

    Sorry for the BOOK! lol
    Paul Valenti

    Slash 4X4 #25 (Mark Jenkins)

  36. #36
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    +++ Correction the end-bell bearing is 5mm x 14mm x 5mm, not 5mm x 13mm x 5mm as I stated above. Just figured I'd make it RIGHT since it may help someone else to order one or two of these JUST IN CASE!

    In case you may have the same trouble that I did finding one you should also know that the bearing is called a 605-ZZ. Many bearing houses will carry (or be able to get) these for you although they may specialize in unrelated fields (automobiles, farm impliments, etc...). Of course BOCA Bearing has them...but my experience is that your local bearing house will be able to get them somewhat cheaper. BOCA charges $7.95 and offers free shipping by snail-mail. Where-as my local Bearing House charged me $5 and NO SHIPPING to have it here on Thursday (2 days later). The only catch...I've got to drive back down there to pick it up...BIG DEAL! It's less than 20 minutes to drive it, round trip maybe 30 minutes!

    Please don't use multiple asterisks in your posts. It often leads to misunderstandings.
    -ksb51rl
    Last edited by ksb51rl; 08-19-2010 at 04:08 PM.
    Paul Valenti

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  37. #37
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    by adding a cheesy integy heatsink/cooling fan on the motor, my temps dropped 30 degrees. i imagine a bigger fan/sink would drop temps even more.

    Conditions:
    * 65 degrees ambient temps
    * med size firm packed track, lots of traction
    * 75% 1/2 - 3/4 throttle
    * 25% full throttle
    * one long 125' straight

    MMP/Novak 550 4.5
    * smartsense mode
    * punch control - 0
    * timing - 30 (mechanical set on motor)
    * gearing - 13/54
    * castle BEC

    Temps:
    * 105 degrees on 2s after 20 minutes
    * 135 degrees on 3s after 20 minutes
    slash 4x4

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