3800/2400 users BEWARE

[dugsagun]

Now we just need castle to make a mmp 3800 combo for all the peeps that wanna run 3s all day in their 4wd's, heh. All this info is gonna make me get a mmp I just know it. If anyone yells at me fer spending too much money on my hobby, ima tell em Asheck made me do it,

[pavmentsurfer]

I think this pretty handily proves the point that in a 2X4 VXL powered truck a 2S 5000mah 20C pack is more than enough... you barely pulled 120 amps in the 4X4... and only ONE time during your run. Theres no way a 2X4 needs more than a 100-120amp rated battery... even in the 4X4 really.

[asheck]

BTW I have heard from Castle on more 1400 options.

More options coming... but right now we are having difficulty keeping up with the demand for the 1410 and 1406 motors.

Look for new options in about eight weeks.

Thanx!

Patrick

Then he says

Well, a 1412 1Y would have a KV of 3200, not 3800.

I'm hoping he is speaking so suredly, because that is one of the options. A 3200 kv 1412 should be paired with the MMP. Making it the ultimate combo in the Pede. Easy fit, KV for either 2 or 3s, and could run 3s, hopefully on some smaller packs, without quite the amps of the 2400.

BTW I didn't make anyone do anything ALL I'm doing are sharing the facts
Really though, I think the SV2 is more then capable of doing fine on 3s. Especially with either a BEC or the fan added. The MMP is not needed, but it's an improvement.

I think this pretty handily proves the point that in a 2X4 VXL powered truck a 2S 5000mah 20C pack is more than enough

I'll throw the VXL in mine and check it out, But so far 3 very different systems have pulled around 93 amps, all running 37mph. I think geared for 60mph on 2s in a 2wd, could draw just as many amps, I've seen close to 120 in my 2wd Slash. But I just bought a 3300 30c 3s, to run in my Rustler. So I guess IMO 100 amps is enough, for my intentions.

[dumbcomputers]

So far I don't see any issue running 3s with the 3800kv. To be honest with you I don't see a reason for the 2400 when the 3800 runs that strong on 3s. I can easily overpower the chassis and the 3800kv is lighter to boot.

[asheck]

I actually just put my 2400 back in. I want to do some more testing. But the 1 main advantage I see right now, is that I can gear for a lower speed. 10/54 with the 3800 was 50mph, and is just a little faster then I want to be geared for. I put 13/54 on the 2400, which should be good for around 45 on 3s.

[dumbcomputers]

I actually just put my 2400 back in. I want to do some more testing. But the 1 main advantage I see right now, is that I can gear for a lower speed. 10/54 with the 3800 was 50mph, and is just a little faster then I want to be geared for. I put 13/54 on the 2400, which should be good for around 45 on 3s.

Again..I don't see a problem I'm NEVER going to gear it lower then 50MPH

After I get my new tires I'm going to gear it to 60-65MPH and see how she runs

[pavmentsurfer]

I think a big difference from what I could see was that the 2400, when geared up, was still smooth down low... when I was running the 3800 on 3S it just seemed a bit jumpy on the bottom. The 2400 was buttery smooth. Its a small point and probably not worth the extra cost of the 2400 but it was something I liked about it more.

[asheck]

2400 13/54 ran 43mph , roughly the same as the 3800 geared 13/54 on 2s. But of course the 2400 feels way faster. A firm touch of the throttle sends the 2400 right over

Anyways, motor = 125
esc= 100
ambient = 66
Speed = 43mph
Amps = 131.7


But as you can see, the average spikes were more in the 105 range. So that and the average says this is alot easier on batteries then the 3800 on 2s. IMO you could get away with a 5000 20c, at this level. But I'll log it again before I change gearing to verify.

[GotNoRice]

Thanks for doing more testing with the 2400. I ran 22/54 on a 3s 25c-35c pack last weekend and ended up bashing on mostly grass and rough terrain. Performance was fine but it was kinda scary when I felt my Lipo and it was warm to the touch. The motor got a bit hotter than I'm used to also, but still under dangerous temps. I geared down to 18/54 because I can't afford to take risks with my batteries right now, but as I gear lower, I'm starting to think about 4s.

[asheck]

What was the capacity? 22/54 would be a killer amp setup, I'm sure. Imo if you need the speed above what around 17/54 or so would give you, then 4s is something to look into. With my current gearing I'm sure I could drop 4s right in with no issues. But 4s becomes real beastly real quick.
Remember if you are using batteries on the edge of performance that's needed, that you should use a higher cutoff, and limit extended WOT runs at the end of the pack. This will help.

[GotNoRice]

What was the capacity? 22/54 would be a killer amp setup, I'm sure.

It's a 5000mah 3s 25c constant, 35c burst pack. After that one one of the cells was also a bit out of balance and took longer than normal for my charger to balance the pack, but it seems to be working fine again. My only reason for gearing as high as I did was to make 2s viable, but I find myself reaching for the 3s pack more and more often. 4s would at least let me put my existing 2s packs to use in series.

[beetroot72]

I've been keeping 15/52 for daily grinding on 3 and 4s... with the scary (only once so far) 23/52 on 4s. My temps are hardly warm and on 3s my esc fan is almost never on. I'll hear it come on when It's stopped with the body on. The 4s I use seems more than capable to handle anything the mmp/2400 wants out of it but I have dabbled with the thought of linking my venom 2s's together. So If I use 2 venom 20c/35c 2s batts my C rate stays the same right?...
Here's my monster 4s installed... Truely too much for such a little beast...but so fun. Keeps a big grin on my face!

[Dr.J]

I tried to follow this stuff, but its over my head. Where's the summary for us laymen! What's the best, most efficient set up???

[Ricky-Bobby]

Ive been trying to follow also. Ive got the mmp 3800kv geared 14/54 with proline sc trenchers. I know the pede 4x4 is a monster truck but with the black body and the black with red bead lock this thing looks sweet. Hope im not taxing my 5000mah 40c lipo's to much.

[Dr.J]

Im leaning towards the mmp 2400 for 3s running. shake n bake!

[Ricky-Bobby]

i have a mmm in my slash 4x4 geared 18/54 on 3s. Just want something in the pede 4x4 that was a drop in. Didn't want to mess around to much and mod things. I have my Axial Wraith taking up most of my extra time and money.

[thedreadedend]

I tried to follow this stuff, but its over my head. Where's the summary for us laymen! What's the best, most efficient set up???

Basically, if you drop a 3800 in your truck and gear it up to 13-14-15/54, it'll eat up some amps. If you buy a lipo that delivers 180 amps or higher, you'll be fine. I use a couple of SPC 2s 6000's and its a bit hard on them. SPC answered our needs with the newer line of batteies, the 5200 40c line. They will pump out a whopping 208 amps. Those 2s and 3s will be more than enough. If you like a bit of variety, Promatch hassome bad boys also. I just ordered some 2s from them that are 6200 60c, good price and another great company that will take care of all your needs even if he has to eat a few $. Both these companies are top knotch!
As for the 2400 motor, it doesn't seem to be as much of an amp hog like the 3800. But it doesn't hurt to have the battery power on tap either way.

[Dr.J]

So do you think Id be better off with the 2400? Ill be using 3s, maybe even 4s if it make it alot faster! I guess the moral of the story on this thread it get the right amp lipo???

[thedreadedend]

Yup, you nailed it with the right lipo. The amps that the 3800 draws, is way up there. Like the #'s you would see from a revo lol. I think if your looking to run 3s-4s, you may as well go with the 2400. It can be geared higher and run 3-4s without heat issues if its geared right. 2400 with 18/54 would barely even heat up a 2400 and would be extremely fast. Just keep in mind, its not intended for 2s so, you'll be committed to 3s or better after that. The 2400 is my favorite motor! I love busting out the sl4sh on 3s after onlookers comment on how insane the p4de seems with a 3800 on 2s. That just blows them away.

[Dr.J]

Thanks man, thats what I needed to know. My 2 brothers n dad have the gas revos. Mine pede is slightly faster, but I want to blow theyre doors off. Will I need mips up front too? Id guess yes

[noahb]

Asheck,
I have a couple pede 4x4's. Stock brushless setups. I am looking to upgrade to the CC system. However, I have a question. I only run 2s 5000 mah packs. Stock gearing, stock tires (this will change with some trenchers in the near future). I am not looking for speed runs. Somewhere in the low 30's is fine as I mainly drive with my two boys, and want to keep the system battery friendly and still get similar run times as I do now (I get a good 20 minutes of bashing with plenty of reserve... safety left in the batt).

Can I expect similar runtimes as I do now if I stay with the 11/54 gearing? This is with stock tires, and then trenchers in the future.

Also, I have heard that the Sidewinder V2 is kind of jerky on take off, where the MMP does not exhibit this as much.

Would you rec. the SV2, or try and get the MMP? I will end up getting three of these systems, so if I can save a bit, that would be great. However, I rather not have it sit there at low throttle take off and be real jerky.

Any feed back would be appreciated.
Thanks

[Petertje60]

If you get the 3800 motor, the MMP is the best choice to get the best out of the motor. If you stick to 2S, the Sv2 with a fan will probably work, but the MMP is way better suited to feed the 3800 sufficient. If you want to upgrade to the 2400 later (who knows), the Sv2 will be useless.

[spena]

Would you rec. the SV2, or try and get the MMP? I will end up getting three of these systems, so if I can save a bit, that would be great. However, I rather not have it sit there at low throttle take off and be real jerky.

MMP is by far the better esc than sv2. But if you are only sticking to 2S lipos and want to keep your wallet safe then sv2+3800kv motor is the way to go.

[bigsnake76]

If I drop in a 2400 setup, can I expect to be replacing wheels all the time do to stripped hex's? I know metal driveshafts are absolutely necessary. The 2400 just seems like alot of power.
Im a very light basher, no jumping just off roading through grass etc (farting around).... Any problems with diffs as well with this amount of power w this setup?
2. Is a 25c SPC 3s lipo sufficient with the 2400 and MMP?

[Petertje60]

Tighted the wheel nuts enough. I never managed to strip one, not even with the 2650Kv.

A driveshaft upgrade is a necessity when you push this baby to the limits. Maybe only the rear will work.

The C-rating by itself doesnt say anything about a battery being enough.
A 5000mAh 25C might be on the light side, but that depends a lot on your gearing and driving style.

[TQi]

what mods have to be made for a 2400/mmp combo to work, or can you just drop it right in?

it can handle 6s correct?

or would I be better off with the 3800 combo? I have venom 2s and 3s 20c 5000mahs', what's the deal with the 3800 eating up amps, what's that mean?

[Petertje60]

The 2400 needs a little dremel work to fit it in (take care of the right angle on the motor mount). The MMP can handle 6S, but the 2400 is rated 5S. On 4S it is a beast already, so I would never go past that.
With eating up amps is meant that it is a powerful motor which asks more than average power from your battery.
The 3800 can deliver quite some more power than the VXL set. Read the first pages of this topic for that.

[TQi]

Thanks Pete

so it seems like the 3800 motor actually needs more amps than the 2400?

if so, I think I would be happier with the 2400, maybe I could slap the 2cells together for 4s, would the venom 3s 20c be sufficient enough for the 2400?

[Petertje60]

Thanks Pete

so it seems like the 3800 motor actually needs more amps than the 2400?

if so, I think I would be happier with the 2400, maybe I could slap the 2cells together for 4s, would the venom 3s 20c be sufficient enough for the 2400?

That depends on which voltage you are running. On the same voltage, the 2400 will definately ask more amps, simply because it is more powerful.
On 4S, made from 5000mAh 2S 20C batteries, you will have 100A on 14.4V, which equals 1440W. I'd say that is enough.

Bear in mind that not every C-rating from different manufacturers is the same. For example, a 20C spec from SPC is quite different (more trustworthy) from what many others specify.


Edit: I checked some speed run data logs and noticed the 2400 in my Bandit ate almost 1900W at top speed. Considering the lower voltage under load, that meant I got peaks of 140A on 4S (4200mAh 35C).

So depending on that you want, you might need more than 100A. At least, for speed runs with a heavy gearing you would. On less smooth surfaces like grass, it might be even worse.
If your gearing is not too heavy, things are different.

[TQi]

lol I'm getting a headache thinking about which one I want and batteries, wheels/tires, lipo chargers etc. and I don't even have the money for it right now

I think I'll go with the 3800 just because its a direct drop in, I don't want to be stripping wheel hexes and hubs all the time, and I don't need insane speed, just a reliable bashing system. and hopefully I can keep the batteries I have, otherwise its the SPC 50cs' for me.

What's the deal with the amp hungryness, is it going to make my venoms explode or eventually dangerous to use? I'll gladly sell them if that's going to be the case. I like the look of those SPC 50c 2s and 3s batteries, and those should be enough juice for the 3800 right?

I'm loving the stock system for now but when I get some extra money, 3800 combo is mine! and possibly batteries, depending on your answer about the power hungry issue.


and thanks again

[Petertje60]

Lol. The 3800 is quite a step up from the VXL set of which I think it's a little too small for the 4x4 Pede.

Of course it all depends what you want. I just got back in from a short session with mine with the MMP/2650 on SPC 5200 3S 40C power. I decided to mount the Trenchers because I didn't use those for quite a while.
Man, what a machine. Strong enough to rip a few brown stripes in the grass and still good for an impressive top speed. Sadly the fan of the MMP has a mind of its own and didn't start when it was necessary with a temp of 150F as result.

The MMP/3800 is a great combo if you want a reliable bashing machine. The 50C SPC ones will be more than enough to feed it. Perfect batteries.

[TQi]

Sounds good I'll definitely get some of those batteries with the combo, when the time comes.

for now I guess I'll be using the 9/54 gearing and still watching temps like a chump

[Petertje60]

Sounds good I'll definitely get some of those batteries with the combo, when the time comes.

for now I guess I'll be using the 9/54 gearing and still watching temps like a chump

Today's test run was on 18/54 Watching temps is a good habit. That is how I found out my ESC fan didn't work well.

[DiggerPede]

Uh huh. What made you decide to go with the 2650? I take it you are impressed.

I cut the yard yesterday, tomorrow I plan to charge some packs and bash my Sl4sh.

Sent from my Desire HD using Xparent Green Tapatalk 2

[madkawi650]

I have the 2400 combo and Did NOT have to Dremmel anything to make it fit. Dropped right in.. That said.. I don't like the motor.. It's to violent !
I wish I he the 3800 combo cause I'd rather run 2s as I had lots of them.. I find the larger capacity 3s batts are really heavy causing poor handling and MoRE amp draw.
When I bought the motor I was wanting a replacement for the Vxl system that would stay cool.. Well I got that. It also got half a dozen stripped wheel hexes and twisted diff outputs.. It's a wild and powerful system but when your tearing your truck apart it becomes less fun in a hurry.. I'd say the mmp/3800 system with mild gearing would be perfect for the average basher.. Just my opinion..


Sent from my highly abused iPhone using Tapatalk

[Petertje60]

Luckily everyone is different. I even had the MMP/2400 combo in my 2WD Pede. For the reason it was about impossible to poke that hot. Since I have a rather gentle throttle finger, I never had much problems of breaking parts due to the overload of power.
I got a nice deal on the 2650 at my LHS which I just couldn't resist. Very happy with it. The 10% extra RPM compared to the 2400 at the same voltage was also an advantage. What makes a different that I run on hard surface most of the time. I just love to always have some extra power available.
With MIP shafts on the rear end and FLM ones at the front end, I am a happy camper.

Not 100% sure about the dremelling needed for the 2400. Maybe you only need it to mesh a certain gearing.

[TQi]

Dropped right in you say

that changes my mind a little bit, I mean I can always tune the ESC down to reduce the risk of broken parts, what's the gearing for that drop in?

[vxlrocket]

i've got several slash 4x4s, and if you like the idea of the 3800, there's yet another option....i really liked the 3800, but the price was a little steep for me. knowing that castle also does HPI's motors, i found that they have a 1410 4000kv 4 pole castle motor in the flux xs. this is the same size as the 3800, just 200kv more so i got one from ebay, and it was everything I had hoped. it was blistering fast and ran incredibly on 2S. on occassion, i did run on 3S, but 2S was plenty. i know i was doing 70+ on 3S...very easily.

so, then i just got a mmp on ebay and walked away with a 4000 that was just as good as the 3800 and an mmp for about $150.

here's the link for the motor on ebay:it's called the HPI vektor 4000kv

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HPI-Racing-S...item1c288ae938

[spenniepoos]

I want to get the mmp 3800 soon want more power than my vxl...... peace

[DiggerPede]

knowing that castle also does HPI's motors, i found that they have a 1410 4000kv 4 pole castle motor in the flux xs. this is the same size as the 3800, just 200kv more so i got one from ebay, and it was everything I had hoped. it was blistering fast and ran incredibly on 2S. on occassion, i did run on 3S, but 2S was plenty. i know i was doing 70+ on 3S...very easily.

I Picked up a couple of those 4000kv Vectors. Since I mainly run 2S in my Digger I'm going to see how these little motors do. Man they are dirt cheap, hope they are spec'd as good as the 3800 internally.

The castle version of the Duratrax Element I've heard are cut down spec's of what castle normally does.