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  1. #1
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    Quest for Stability???

    Got my XO-1 coming...but am really concerned an the alarming number of blow-overs I see....or the second it goes sideways, it lifts and blows over. I have a 1/8 scale buggy with a Castle 1518 motor that goes 70mph (verified by garmin gps) all day long just bashing on 6s. It does not have stability issues and is rock solid at full speed....and it is not even lowered. It is bone stock! Has never blow over or even come close to doing so.

    So that got me thinking....what is the big differnce between an XO-1 chassis and a typical 1/8 buggy ...well not all that much....both use a flat aluminum chassis....

    So the difference is one of two things.......or both. The full body compared to a buggy body. And all that fancy plastic ground effects on the X0-1 (that actually provide double the surface area for wind to pick it up once the front end lifts just a bit.)

    Has anyone tried taking off all that plastic ground effects stuff surrounding the chassis and use a body from a buggy or something narrow? XTM used to make a buggy body in 1/7th scale.

    Unfortunately removing the X0-1 body and cool ground effects kind of kills the spirit of the design. The car is so cool looking stock...it is almost a sin to remove all that stuff.

    But I suspect the first guy who removes the ground effects and goes with a narrow buggy body will be rewarded with stability and break 100mph pretty easy. I base this of my experience owing a full bodied 1/8 scale car that would blow over at only 50mph if I nailed the throttle or if it got sideways. My buggy is simply rock solid all day long at 70mph.... full bodied...not so much!

    I am not a hater of the XO-1, It is completely cool.....just concerned because watching posted videos of it brought back bad memories of my full bodied 1/8 car skidding down the road on its roof!!!!! Terrible sound! haha.

    I hope someone gives it a try with a narrow body and without the ground effects stuff just for giggles.

  2. #2
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    It has been my experience that the XO-1 at 70mph + is actually quite stable. All it takes is a little throttle control and some practice. I would recommend taking the car to a nice wide open parking lot and practicing with it before going all out for 100mph. Once you learn how the car reacts you will not have any problems (at least that has been my experience anyway).
    Scott
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  3. #3
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    I have a feeling the cooling vent is pumping way too much air in too a pretty much seal body..

    I think that's way this car does that, Ruined my new red body last night.

    what do you guys think of this theory?

    We got to find away too fix it. Its apparent Traxxas didn't do there homework..This car should not be doing this..
    Last edited by racksteris; 02-05-2012 at 01:30 PM.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottEMS View Post
    It has been my experience that the XO-1 at 70mph + is actually quite stable. All it takes is a little throttle control and some practice. I would recommend taking the car to a nice wide open parking lot and practicing with it before going all out for 100mph. Once you learn how the car reacts you will not have any problems (at least that has been my experience anyway).
    Good to know....but lots of others are not so lucky as you as shown in other threads & videos discussing their crash damaged bodies...some even wearing through the top of their body from sliding down the street. I am really not bringing up an issue that is not already posted about....

    I just want someone to try a narrow body and to ditch the ground effects.... Someone will do it because they will get tired of their car skidding down the street on it's roof. Plain and simple...lots of other guys have experienced the parachute effect and watched their XO's take flight. My full bodied 1/8 was no different. It just was not as fun as by buggy because I always had to ease into the throttle on my full body car in fear it would blow over if the front lifted too much. For me, it took the fun out of driving because I could not get hamfisted with the throttle and throw it around like my buggy. It just was not my thing.

    If the X0 is the same experience, I probably won't own it long. Oh well. Still a super cool and revolutionary car. Plus it brings back the 1717 motor which lots of guys were bummed when castle quit selling them.

  5. #5
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    I wondered that too. If the vent was allowing the ground effects suction to diminish...Good point...and ya, it sucks ruining bodies! Especially sweet looking ones.... You may be on to something with the motor vent. hmmm.

  6. #6
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    I run a screen in my vent so that should reduce any pumping effect at the cost of a higher motor temp. The front canards from this thing do a great job of holding the front down. We'll see them on many 1/8 buggy and gtp2 builds in the future.

  7. #7
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    Interesting thoughts. It seems to me that most of the "crashes" I have seen on video are from issues with throttle control. Too much single tire spin rotating the car sideways, loss of the forward aerodynamics, and then wipe out. I have had a few small crashes this way. Is the front really lifting at speed with the 100mph splitter in place? Mine is steady up to 70. Haven't gone faster yet.

  8. #8
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    Why not try covering the motor cooling scoop and run 2 castle fans on the motor?

    Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk
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  9. #9
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    Only time it lifts is after it slides out and the rear diffuser and wing catch reverse air. The front is on rails.

  10. #10
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    one thing i would suggest is to try and secure the body to the chassis on the sides, keeping body flap down. also will help when losing control and go sideways, ive seen my tc4 do it even though it is secured. the body gets wind under it and blows out kinda like a slash does. Another thing has anyone cut out the rear of the body? just something else we do to help with stability. I don't have a xo-1 but getting one soon.( waiting on taxes lol). just some suggestions i could think of. May not even help on this car with the aerodynamics the chassis has already.
    slash 4x4 168mph
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by iaanr View Post
    Interesting thoughts. It seems to me that most of the "crashes" I have seen on video are from issues with throttle control. Too much single tire spin rotating the car sideways, loss of the forward aerodynamics, and then wipe out. I have had a few small crashes this way. Is the front really lifting at speed with the 100mph splitter in place? Mine is steady up to 70. Haven't gone faster yet.
    Ya, seems most are when people forget the splitter or the car gets sideways....but again, I have purposefully slid my buggy sideways at speed and it never came close to lifting.....which is why I would like to see what and X0 does without all that body and aerodynamic plastic. I think I am going to cancel my order...I like to drive aggressive and nail the throttle. I can see the XO is not for me and I have lots of bumps and cracks on my street where I mainly drive. The X0 seems to need a really nice stretch of pavement. Oh well. Still a very cool RC.

  12. #12
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    The narrow front tires grip less than the fat boys in the back. I think that would make it want to get sideways under a heavy finger.?. Idk?
    Last edited by BL-Bob; 02-05-2012 at 05:06 PM.

  13. #13
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    I don't think you can really compare a 1/8 buggy. It's totally different & at the very least is open wheeled (assuming the buggy is setup for speed runs on road) which is a totally different dynamic. To suggest or imply Traxxas has produced either a poorly designed vehicle or released a vehicle with critical faults is at best speculation

    What Traxxas have done is design & release a vehicle that is correctly marketed as an 'expert' RC. This doesn't mean anyone can buy one & smash out consecutive 100mph runs regardless of limiting factors. To me it means you buy a very powerful vehicle that is designed to go 100mph providing you have everything right...running surface, aero setup, throttle control etc

    From my own experience in different vehicles, it takes practice & fine tuning to get to 100mph, I can't see the XO-1 being any different

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by PBO View Post
    I don't think you can really compare a 1/8 buggy. It's totally different & at the very least is open wheeled (assuming the buggy is setup for speed runs on road) which is a totally different dynamic. To suggest or imply Traxxas has produced either a poorly designed vehicle or released a vehicle with critical faults is at best speculation

    What Traxxas have done is design & release a vehicle that is correctly marketed as an 'expert' RC. This doesn't mean anyone can buy one & smash out consecutive 100mph runs regardless of limiting factors. To me it means you buy a very powerful vehicle that is designed to go 100mph providing you have everything right...running surface, aero setup, throttle control etc

    From my own experience in different vehicles, it takes practice & fine tuning to get to 100mph, I can't see the XO-1 being any different
    Actually If you look objectively, the two chassis have very much that are similar....and you are kidding yourself if you think Traxxas targeted this at expert only RCers...for one, everyone's definition of expert is different... And just because traxxas labeled this as expert....well, labeling it as Expert Only.....well, that alone makes people who should not have it, want it all the more. I have 36 years in RC....RC cars, buggies, 1/10 scale, 1/8 scale, gas, electric, nitro, etc....does that make me an expert...heck no...cuz there is no accepted definition of such a status. Anyone who claims they are RC expert...well, they are egocentric.

    Look all I was saying is my 8th scale buggy (which is not even set up for speed runs) hits 70mph easily while bashing....Not spinning out, getting airborne or crashing. So that got me thinking....what is the difference?...and why is the XO getting airborne at speeds similar the instant is gets sideways. What is making it do that? I wanted someone to give it a run without all the fancy schmancy body and ground effects.

    The XO catches air if it goes sideways at speed...I think it may be the body and the plastic ground effects....And was trying to get a discussion going to get guys thinking about it. And one member already wondered about the motor cooling vent...which I wondered about as well. Just good conversation comparing our experiences with our other RC cars....sorry if none of my current cars are an exact match with the XO. Oh, wait...cuz there are none! XO is a new class...so what do people do, they compare it to something that is next similar.
    Last edited by kirkhayes37; 02-05-2012 at 05:45 PM.

  15. #15
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    Is the steering speed sensitive, I didn't bother checking yet but I've seen a fair bit of back and forth when people are at speed and that may be a contribiting factor, between that and a gyro it might illeviate some of the very obvious issues I've seen.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by kirkhayes37 View Post
    Actually If you look objectively, the two chassis have very much that are similar
    I can't agree or disagree unless you explain what you believe is similar

    The product is marketed as 'expert' & sure that makes it aspirational - it's supposed to but that doesn't make it easy to run at 100mph. That is my point

    Quote Originally Posted by kirkhayes37 View Post
    The XO catches air if it goes sideways at speed...I think it may be the body and the plastic ground effects....And was trying to get a discussion going to get guys thinking about it. And one member already wondered about the motor cooling vent...which I wondered about as well. Just good conversation comparing our experiences with our other RC cars....sorry if none of my current cars are an exact match with the XO. Oh, wait...cuz there are none! XO is a new class...so what do people do, they compare it to something that is next similar.
    There are a few better comparison examples...Kyosho GT, Ofna GTP etc. These are somewhere between a buggy & the XO-1

    The reason a buggy doesn't blow over as easily has more to do the smaller surface area relative to the centre of gravity & the centre of pressure when compared to the XO-1. There's a bit more to it but I don't have time just now - happy to give a more detailed answer later

    The cooling venturi may have a limited effect & a simple piece of tape over the hole could answer that but personally I doubt it would change much. If it did, then as phildogg suggested, some strategic venting would mitigate that & any other 'trapped air' issues. Here's an example;


  17. #17
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    Another possible solution to fight spinouts/blowovers would be vertical fins near the tail of the car. Either on the ends of the wing like the one shown above, or a fin down the middle of the car. This will cause the car to "self correct" any time it starts to go sideways at speed. Gyros can only do so much.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by racksteris View Post
    I have a feeling the cooling vent is pumping way too much air in too a pretty much seal body..

    I think that's way this car does that, Ruined my new red body last night.

    what do you guys think of this theory?

    We got to find away too fix it. Its apparent Traxxas didn't do there homework..This car should not be doing this..
    Seal the vent, and put a temperature controlled fan in there. Should stop the problem.
    Matthew 7:7

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by PBO View Post
    I can't agree or disagree unless you explain what you believe is similar

    The product is marketed as 'expert' & sure that makes it aspirational - it's supposed to but that doesn't make it easy to run at 100mph. That is my point



    There are a few better comparison examples...Kyosho GT, Ofna GTP etc. These are somewhere between a buggy & the XO-1

    The reason a buggy doesn't blow over as easily has more to do the smaller surface area relative to the centre of gravity & the centre of pressure when compared to the XO-1. There's a bit more to it but I don't have time just now - happy to give a more detailed answer later

    The cooling venturi may have a limited effect & a simple piece of tape over the hole could answer that but personally I doubt it would change much. If it did, then as phildogg suggested, some strategic venting would mitigate that & any other 'trapped air' issues. Here's an example;

    Aaaa haaa!, you just jogged my short memory....It was an OFNA GTPe that I had that would take flight at 50mph. Oh my gosh....that brings back memories!!! haha. That thing was so hard to handle. I think you have to be right when you talk about surface area. Cuz that is the biggest difference. When i say similar, I meant by being 4wd, aluminum plate chassis, upright shocks, similar sized motor and esc.... And yep, I also think your right when you say trapped air. Another guy here mentioned cutting out the back of the body....All good things to try. Anyways....super cool car..just needs a few tweaks like any car would that hits 100mph. I am sure someone will get one dialed in real soon...... Hotter temps would help the tires warm up and be stickier....

    But do you think it would hit 100mph plus, if a guy used a narrow body and removed the plastic chassis ground effects....I do...anyways I hope someone tries it.

    Killboy...larger verticle fins...another good idea.

  20. #20
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    Yes directional stability is easy to improve but this often takes away from the design aesthetics

    If you imagine a dart flying through the air, it has tail fins (which create drag) to stabilize it's flight. This stability provides accuracy, rotation 'around the length' or horizontal, further increases accuracy

    So vertical elements at the rear of land based vehicles improves directional stability providing the centre of gravity is before the centre of pressure. This does not include lift & negative lift characteristics, only keeping the rear wheels following the front wheels....lift is another thing entirely

  21. #21
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    To be completely honest, most the videos you are seeing of this thing taking flight are from driver error/ driver lack of skill. Once this thing is going the only thing making it not go straight is the driver or something in the road. The naca duct (vent) underneath is NOT causing the body to balloon or parachute up. The car doesn't need an mods or fixes to be used correctly it just takes practice. I've found even when I lose control I can still keep it from going completely around backwards without too much effort you just have to know there more to this car then pulling the trigger. You also have brakes and steering.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by powers View Post
    To be completely honest, most the videos you are seeing of this thing taking flight are from driver error/ driver lack of skill. Once this thing is going the only thing making it not go straight is the driver or something in the road. The naca duct (vent) underneath is NOT causing the body to balloon or parachute up. The car doesn't need an mods or fixes to be used correctly it just takes practice. I've found even when I lose control I can still keep it from going completely around backwards without too much effort you just have to know there more to this car then pulling the trigger. You also have brakes and steering.
    I agree it's a engineering marvel in the rc world. Glad you posted those videos powers it shows how the XO-1 is suppose to
    Be driven

  23. #23
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    My HPI Vorza hits 70pmh all day with no problem and i've taken my XO-1 up to 103mph.

    I've had my shares of blow overs and crashes. From what Ive learned is that you have to have the 100mph splitter on.

    The main thing is that its not the top speed, its the throttle control.
    In my Vorza i can be at a roll and nail the throttle up to 70mph with no problem. In the XO-1 you can't do that or you'll lose traction and get sideways fast. You can't even nail the throttle from 80mph up to 100mph. You just have to learn throttle control and gradually work your acceleration faster and faster but doing that requires more space.
    That's where i messed up. I found a big parking lot that i can hit 100mph but i have to rush to get there. Rushing that acceleration is what got me sideways and a lot of blow overs. When you find a big open area with more then enough room to play with you'll be okay.
    That's just my opinion though. Top speed isn't causing the crashes. Its the toque and the only fix for that is user learning better throttle control.

  24. #24
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  25. #25
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    It looks kinda cool also.

    I will run it this week end hope fully it does not burn up again

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by racksteris View Post
    That's funny. I was gonna do the same thing tonight.

  27. #27
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    Cool X0-1 at or above 100mph

    Quote Originally Posted by kirkhayes37 View Post
    Actually If you look objectively, the two chassis have very much that are similar....and you are kidding yourself if you think Traxxas targeted this at expert only RCers...for one, everyone's definition of expert is different... And just because traxxas labeled this as expert....well, labeling it as Expert Only.....well, that alone makes people who should not have it, want it all the more. I have 36 years in RC....RC cars, buggies, 1/10 scale, 1/8 scale, gas, electric, nitro, etc....does that make me an expert...heck no...cuz there is no accepted definition of such a status. Anyone who claims they are RC expert...well, they are egocentric.

    Look all I was saying is my 8th scale buggy (which is not even set up for speed runs) hits 70mph easily while bashing....Not spinning out, getting airborne or crashing. So that got me thinking....what is the difference?...and why is the XO getting airborne at speeds similar the instant is gets sideways. What is making it do that? I wanted someone to give it a run without all the fancy schmancy body and ground effects.

    The XO catches air if it goes sideways at speed...I think it may be the body and the plastic ground effects....And was trying to get a discussion going to get guys thinking about it. And one member already wondered about the motor cooling vent...which I wondered about as well. Just good conversation comparing our experiences with our other RC cars....sorry if none of my current cars are an exact match with the XO. Oh, wait...cuz there are none! XO is a new class...so what do people do, they compare it to something that is next similar.
    I have several buggies including the fastest a vorza flux..running xo-1 wheels. ..runs 75mph sideways without flipping..once I gear it for 100 mph it becomes a kite. .pure lift off, everytime..the x0-1 however is designed to go over 100 mph..right springs, little weight up front, easy on the throttle cause it will spin the tires at 80mph..with straight factory hi speed gearing I've been 107mph no problems..when I first got it I destroyed 3 bodies getting sideways at 80mph then flipping. If it don't get sideways it don't flip...learn to drive smooth and apply power slowly and steady and the x0-1 is firmly planted on the ground. ..I don't know the definition of expert..I've been in r/c cars, trucks, buggies 45 years..but I do know my friends with 2 or 3 years experience sale there x0-1 cause there's no patience and thinks take off, nail the throttle and watch it go 100mph...well it don't work that way. ..it splitters, canards pure aerodynamic design makes it the most stable hi speed out of the box r/c on the market..it does take a much greater skill level to run it and keep it on all 4 wheels the whole time than my 75mph buggy...my 12 year old can drive my buggy 75mph...but can't even make the x0-1 over 100ft. Before spinning out...difference is night and day...from 75mph to 100mph is a major step up is what isn't realized..100 mph even a real car is trying to lift off at 100mph...
    Speed cost money!
    How fast do you want to go ?

  28. #28
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    Check the dates on the posts before you reply... this one was quite old (2012).
    One thing that made a big difference for me was thick diff fluid and tuning an aftermarket castle esc for exponential throttle which helps you gently get up to speed.
    Drag brake setting is also a good safety feature.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyMKiii View Post
    Check the dates on the posts before you reply... this one was quite old (2012).
    One thing that made a big difference for me was thick diff fluid and tuning an aftermarket castle esc for exponential throttle which helps you gently get up to speed.
    Drag brake setting is also a good safety feature.
    i saw the dates...ive waited this long and had my x0-1 long enough to understand it before i could say what i did..1st thing i did was tune the expo on steering and throttle above 80% on both...have not touched diff. fluid yet cause i dont think its time..but would love to hear what weights you use to make a difference.. i assume and i understand what assume means also...lol that traxxas had to have a lot more R and D in it than i do and they kinda knew what weight oil needed to be there..but again everybody drives differently.. i want my car to do its 107mph everytime i run it while im running speed runs..when i get on a technical track will require a total different setup..until then any knowledge i pick up is more than i have now...after i learned some throttle control and patience and not stab it all at once, i stopped spinning out and goin sideways and flipping sliding holes in my top until the car stopped from 100mph...so unless you want to keep your onfo. a secret please fill me in on the things you did to run better, smoother, faster...i know its a old thread but didnt think there was any need in bringing a very old problem up to the front to try to start from again..i read every post on the xo-1 i come across to see if theres anything i have or have not tried to help in my quest of 107mph every time i run..when i can do that im gonna change my gearing and go faster..its my plan anyway..lol
    Anyway thanks for your time with any and everything you will share with me on the setup of the x0-1

    Steve Smith
    Speed cost money!
    How fast do you want to go ?

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