LiPo on Brushed motor?

[stevenhousden]

We have a stock rustler with a 7cell NiMH & xl-5 esc ..we switched our motor to the Firebolt 15t 540 and a 17t pinion gear. The battery we have doesn't last for more than 10 minutes on a full charge. My sons getting a bit tired of that... I want to switch to LiPo but not sure if we should get a 3s or 2s. I have read the power ratio of the 7cell NiMH is close to a 2s but I wasnt sure if we can get a 3s in case we want to upgrade to brushless later. So, can we run a brushed motor on the 3s or should I just get the 2s to be safe? Whats your opinion on brand and also what charger to get? I've seen this one seems to be popular http://www.ebay.com/itm/150950676972...84.m1436.l2649

[zippogeek]

I would save your money and NOT go LiPo until you go brushless. Go brushless sooner than later (as soon as you can afford it!) As I told someone earlier today, everything is better with brushless...longer run times (better efficiency), more power/speed, etc.

[stevenhousden]

I would save your money and NOT go LiPo until you go brushless. Go brushless sooner than later (as soon as you can afford it!) As I told someone earlier today, everything is better with brushless...longer run times (better efficiency), more power/speed, etc.

I would love to go brushless, trust me. Its only a matter of time.. My 8yo son is just learning this car and brushless would be way to fast for him. I do however want a little bit longer run time. Although I think I just figured out that the ESC was set up for lipo Low Voltage Detection and I just switched that off. Maybe that will gain us some play time. I still would like some info on the 2c vs 3c for right now and some brands of battery/chargers that are good.

[zippogeek]

The Traxxas EZ Peak Plus is a nice little LiPo charger for a good price (also charges NiMh):

http://www.amazon.com/Traxxas-2933-E.../dp/B005FUKQ7M

Go with a 2S LiPo (7.4V); a 3S (11.1V) would toast a brushed rustler motor very quickly...it's only designed for 8.4V!

[zippogeek]

Come to think of it, your stock ESC is only rated for 9.6V as well...

[stevenhousden]

Thank you zippo...I'll order a 2c and the ez peak..I dont need any smoke effects from the motor or esc just yet.

[zippogeek]

Thank you zippo...I'll order a 2c and the ez peak..I dont need any smoke effects from the motor or esc just yet.

Yeah, smoke is bad. Make sure you get at least a 30C battery; C-rating represents how fast a pack can discharge. If the C-rating is too low for a given load, the pack can literally "puff" (which means it's toast). Puffed packs can start a fire. And you're out fifty bucks.

[stevenhousden]

wow...I had a traxxas 25c 2cell on my wishlist and I was just reading about that when you posted this...I found this battery http://www.amazon.com/Venom-15080-50...niversal+Plugs and this charger http://www.amazon.com/Traxxas-2933-E...I30QFVOX2OKO3Q look ok for what I need? I do want to say I appreciate your time. There is no one I know of around here that is into these cars that I could call and talk to...so thank you.

[RC-nightmare]

http://www.hobbypartz.com/98p-40c-50...FQixnQodG04AUg

This Pack maybe alittle better its cheaper better quailty and more c rating!!

[zippogeek]

http://www.hobbypartz.com/98p-40c-50...FQixnQodG04AUg

This Pack maybe alittle better its cheaper better quailty and more c rating!!

Gens Ace are supposed to be very good as well...and you can't go wrong with the EZ Peak Plus.

[altidude]

I just ordered two of these SPC 6500mah 2S 50c batteries.

http://www.spcracing.com/index.php?productID=121

I've been using the SPC 5000mah 2S 25C batteries and they've been great so far.

[stevenhousden]

With that Gens Acer I guess im going to need a converter for that plug? I have the stock XL5 ESC and it has a flat plug on it and these come with banana plugs...holy moses there is a lot to take in on these things. Every time I get ready to order I see something else I need to make it work lol....So do I need to pick this up as well? http://www.amazon.com/Venom-Bullet-P...universal+plug

[stevenhousden]

I just ordered two of these SPC 6500mah 2S 50c batteries.

http://www.spcracing.com/index.php?productID=121

I've been using the SPC 5000mah 2S 25C batteries and they've been great so far.

I see this one comes with which ever connector I need. I really just need a little more run time than this 7cell is giving us. We just ran it around the yard and in light snow and it was done in 10 minutes. By the time my sons starts having fun we have to park it.

[tnark]

With that Gens Acer I guess im going to need a converter for that plug? I have the stock XL5 ESC and it has a flat plug on it and these come with banana plugs...holy moses there is a lot to take in on these things. Every time I get ready to order I see something else I need to make it work lol....So do I need to pick this up as well? http://www.amazon.com/Venom-Bullet-P...universal+plug

Not sure about all hobby shops, but my localHobby People shop, soldered my new connectors on for free. I just bought the pack of traxxas connectors, which comes with 2, so next time I get another new lipo i'll have the plug already.

[diggerdad]

i have a rustler/firebolt/xl5 combo as well,and have used gens ace 2s/5000mah/40c & gensace 2s/2200/25c packs as well as traxxas 7cell/3000mah/nmh packs. w/ stock gearing, i get 15 mins run time on mostly hard surfaces. w/ 2200 packs, iget 20-25 mins w/ alot more punch,and it seems to have 1-2mph more top end.w/ the 5000 pack,it turns it into a whole new truck! 3-4 more mph,crazy punch,35-45 mins runtime.fair warning,the 5000 pack will melt brushes! it seems that wot speed passes for the whole 40 mins is a bad idea. side note: i use both lipo packs w/cc sv2/4600kv brushless combo in another truck(stampede) and there is very little difference in runtime,but of course tons more power. hope this helps

[JayMcGill]

I would save your money and NOT go LiPo until you go brushless. Go brushless sooner than later (as soon as you can afford it!) As I told someone earlier today, everything is better with brushless...longer run times (better efficiency), more power/speed, etc.

I am not sure why anyone would think this? Even with brushed you are going to get better run times and probably better speed. I have had several brushless systems as well as NiMh, NiCd and LiPo batteries to run them with. LiPo is simply a better battery. I was getting about 30 minutes out of my Rustler running a 4000kv brushless motor (battery is SPC 25c 5000mah 2s) and now use the same battery in my crawler, brushed, getting around 3 - 4 hours depending on the climbs.

[Zepher]

Xl5 can only use 2s lipos, and you need a lipo alarm if your xl5 doesn't have Low Voltage Detection..
2s battery made a huge difference in runtime and power on my old stampede and bandit.
It was like I bought new motors for the cars. I was running 7cell nickel batteries before the lipos.
I just bought a pair of spc 8200 50c batteries for my summit but I use them in my Bandit as well.
http://spcracing.com/index.php?productID=153
They are out of stock again.

[stevenhousden]

Xl5 can only use 2s lipos, and you need a lipo alarm if your xl5 doesn't have Low Voltage Detection..
2s battery made a huge difference in runtime and power on my old stampede and bandit.
It was like I bought new motors for the cars. I was running 7cell nickel batteries before the lipos.
I just bought a pair of spc 8200 50c batteries for my summit but I use them in my Bandit as well.
http://spcracing.com/index.php?productID=153
They are out of stock again.

My xl5 has LVD built in so that's a plus. I think I am going to order the SPC 6500mAh , 50C, 2S, 7.4V for now. It has the right connector we need and it should give us a lot more run time than the 10 minutes we are getting from the 7c nickel battery. Hopefully we dont run through our brushed motors to quick with this. We dont do speed runs...just backyard driving...some small jumps here and there. The battery and the charger alone are around 120 bucks..but when we decide to go brusless at least we will have that part covered. I have to keep my orders small so my sons happy with his run time and my wife dont shoot me

[stevenhousden]

i have a rustler/firebolt/xl5 combo as well,and have used gens ace 2s/5000mah/40c & gensace 2s/2200/25c packs as well as traxxas 7cell/3000mah/nmh packs. w/ stock gearing, i get 15 mins run time on mostly hard surfaces. w/ 2200 packs, iget 20-25 mins w/ alot more punch,and it seems to have 1-2mph more top end.w/ the 5000 pack,it turns it into a whole new truck! 3-4 more mph,crazy punch,35-45 mins runtime.fair warning,the 5000 pack will melt brushes! it seems that wot speed passes for the whole 40 mins is a bad idea. side note: i use both lipo packs w/cc sv2/4600kv brushless combo in another truck(stampede) and there is very little difference in runtime,but of course tons more power. hope this helps

Thats everything I wanted to see as far as run times. the punch and speed are a plus though. Hopefully with the SPC 6500mAh , 50C, 2S, 7.4V we will get the time we want. We dont run it hard as far as speed runs or crazy jumps. My son is still trying to keep it straight with the stock set up. However the run time on a 7c nickel is very disappointing.

[Zepher]

Just remember to enable LVD on the ESC before using the lipos.

copied from the manual,

Low-Voltage Detection Settings _______________________
The XL-5 speed control includes Low-Voltage Detection circuitry for
use with LiPo batteries. This feature can be disabled for use with NiMH
batteries. The Low-Voltage Detection circuitry constantly monitors the
battery voltage. When the battery voltage begins to reach the minimum
recommended discharge voltage threshold for LiPo battery packs, the
XL-5 will limit the power output to 50% throttle. When the battery
voltage attempts to fall below the minimum threshold, the XL-5 will shut
down all motor output. The LED on the speed control will slowly blink
red, indicating a low-voltage shutdown. The XL-5 will stay in this mode
until a fully charged battery is connected.
Be certain Low-Voltage Detection is enabled if you install LiPo batteries
in your model. Never use LiPo batteries while Low-Voltage Detection
is disabled.
Verify that Low-Voltage Detection is DISABLED:
1. Turn on the transmitter (with the
throttle at neutral).
2. Connect a fully charged battery
pack to the XL-5.
3. Press and release the EZ-Set button
to turn the XL-5 on. If the LED is solid RED, then the Low-Voltage
Detection is DISABLED (not safe to use LiPo batteries). If the LED is
solid GREEN, then Low-Voltage Detection is ACTIVATED.
To activate Low-Voltage Detection (LiPo setting):
1. Make sure the LED on the XL-5
is on and RED.
2. Press and hold the EZ-Set button
(the LED will turn off ) (A). After ten
seconds, the motor will beep twice
and the LED will shine GREEN. Release the button (B).
3. Low-Voltage Detection is now ACTIVATED.
To disable Low-Voltage Detection (NiMH setting):
1. Make sure the LED on the XL-5 is
on and GREEN.
2. Press and hold the EZ-Set button
(the LED will turn off ) (A). After ten
seconds, the motor will beep three
times and the LED will shine RED. Release the button (B).
3. Low-Voltage Detection is now DISABLED.
Setup Programming ________________________________

[Jakey]

My xl5 has LVD built in so that's a plus. I think I am going to order the 2S, 7.4V for now. It has the right connector we need and it should give us a lot more run time than the 10 minutes we are getting from the 7c nickel battery. Hopefully we dont run through our brushed motors to quick with this.

Far and away the number one cause of premature failure for brushed motors is heat. Brushed motors generate more heat than do brushless due to the brush-to-commutator interface friction. So be very careful with the longer runtimes afforded by larger capacity LiPo packs. For the first few LiPo-powered runs I suggest stopping the vehicle after about 10 minutes and checking the motor heat. If the motor is abnormally hot, STOP and allow it to cool down. Once you run LiPo a few times you will get a feel for how long the vehicle can operate before excessive heat sets in.

[stevenhousden]

Thank you Zepher...When I purchased this truck the LVD was already on...I broke the manual out and reset it back to run nickel. I thought that was why I was only getting 10 minutes on my battery. But it really didnt effect it after I disabled the LVD. Still just getting 10-12 minutes.

[stevenhousden]

Far and away the number one cause of premature failure for brushed motors is heat. Brushed motors generate more heat than do brushless due to the brush / commutator interface friction. So be very careful with the longer runtimes afforded by larger capacity LiPo packs. For the first few LiPo-powered runs I suggest stopping the vehicle after about 10 minutes and checking the motor heat. If the motor is abnormally hot, STOP and allow it to cool down. Once you run LiPo a few times you will get a feel for how long the vehicle can operate before excessive heat sets in.

I am always checking the heat on that motor as we run...I have read so much about these brushed motors burning up from heat. It drives my son nuts but im always grabbing that thing. I will keep an eye on it for sure.

[VandalVXL]

Hey guys I just bought a lipo 2s 4000mah 7.4v Form my LHS for my xl5 but it seems slower than my stock 7cell 3000mah 8.4v??? Am I doing something wrong? Or Is iit the battery? I called LHS and the guy says I need to upgrade to vxl in order to get more speed.. But I'm here thinkin that lipo was suppose to give it more power rather then goin vxl right away..?

[JayMcGill]

Hey guys I just bought a lipo 2s 4000mah 7.4v Form my LHS for my xl5 but it seems slower than my stock 7cell 3000mah 8.4v??? Am I doing something wrong? Or Is iit the battery? I called LHS and the guy says I need to upgrade to vxl in order to get more speed.. But I'm here thinkin that lipo was suppose to give it more power rather then goin vxl right away..?

What is the C rating on the battery?

[Zepher]

Hey guys I just bought a lipo 2s 4000mah 7.4v Form my LHS for my xl5 but it seems slower than my stock 7cell 3000mah 8.4v??? Am I doing something wrong? Or Is iit the battery? I called LHS and the guy says I need to upgrade to vxl in order to get more speed.. But I'm here thinkin that lipo was suppose to give it more power rather then goin vxl right away..?

If you were setting LVD for the lipo, maybe you accidentally stuck the ESC in Training mode.

What is the C rating on the battery?

c rating of the battery will be at least 20, which is plenty for these small cars in near stock form.

[VandalVXL]

If you were setting LVD for the lipo, maybe you accidentally stuck the ESC in Training mode.


c rating of the battery will be at least 20, which is plenty for these small cars in near stock form.

How do I get out of training mode?
My lipo is 30c

[VandalVXL]

Actually I figured out how to undo training mode so I think that might have solved my problem.. THANKs!
I'll have to see tomorrow when I run it

[Zepher]

cool, let us know if that was the issue.
I know both my Bandit and Stampede ran much faster and longer on the 2s lipo than on the 7 cell 8.4volt nickel battery.

[stevenhousden]

I got my Firebolt 15t 540 and 17t pinion gear in today...We just ordered a SPC LiPo 6500mAh , 50C, 2S, 7.4V and a Traxxas 2933 EZ-Peak Plus charger. Our first upgrades. Hopefully all of this meshes together well and we get some more run time out of our rustler.

after my wife settles down a little bit from these purchases we will upgrade with Aluminum Shock Caps, RPM Wide front bumper, RPM Rear Shock tower, Aluminum Castor Blocks. Any suggestions on these items as far as price/value goes?

[altidude]

after my wife settles down a little bit from these purchases we will upgrade with Aluminum Shock Caps, RPM Wide front bumper, RPM Rear Shock tower, Aluminum Castor Blocks. Any suggestions on these items as far as price/value goes?

Get the front bumper now. It's not expensive at all and it will likely save you from spending more money sooner. I buy most of my RPM parts off ebay but my LHS (about 20 miles away so not so local) carries a good selection too. RPM lists their MSRP so you'll know if you've found a good deal regardless where you buy. Even at full MSRP the RPM front bumper is a good deal. The stock bumper on the Rustler provides almost no protection, IMO.

[altidude]

And regarding the wife, I can totally relate! I'm getting most of my parts shipped to my office now but since I categorize all my purchases in Quicken, and my wife is a CPA, she'll pull up a spending report by category every once in a while. Then we have "A Talk". There's always One More Thing the Rustler needs and now that we're buying a Slash, it's only gonna get worse!

[stevenhousden]

Get the front bumper now. It's not expensive at all and it will likely save you from spending more money sooner. I buy most of my RPM parts off ebay but my LHS (about 20 miles away so not so local) carries a good selection too. RPM lists their MSRP so you'll know if you've found a good deal regardless where you buy. Even at full MSRP the RPM front bumper is a good deal. The stock bumper on the Rustler provides almost no protection, IMO.

All of the parts I want there are under 50 bucks so I will get them next payday. The bumper was first on the list. ahhahhha Trust me, we have already had several "talks" about this car. Its my 8yo sons car and we are both learning about all of this together. More me learning form you guys and just buying the parts we need and him helping put them on. So she doesn't mind to much..I think its more sticker shock sometimes. O.o

[diggerdad]

if she has sticker shock w/ this hobby,maybe you should try a 1:1 scale project.she'"ll be beggin for rc! its cool your son is helping w/ the install. gotta get them involved early on!

[VandalVXL]

cool, let us know if that was the issue.
I know both my Bandit and Stampede ran much faster and longer on the 2s lipo than on the 7 cell 8.4volt nickel battery.

Thx zepher my rusty is flyin now no problem!

[Zepher]

Glad you got it sorted out.
I've got to fix my bandit, bell crank broke at the toe link connection tonight after running for 5 minutes, tumbled a couple of times and noticed the pass side wheel wasn't turning when I turned.

[fjcruiserpd]

I have a question regarding the Traxxas EZ Peak charger mentioned earlier in this thread. I too have just bought the 6500mah 2s lipo from SPC, but when I tried to charge it using the EZ Peak charger I noticed that it only went up to 6000mah!! Is there a way to get around this or am I just out of luck when it comes to charging this battery with this charger?

Any solutions are welcome.

[stevenhousden]

It will charge it...I have both..we got the spc 6500mah and the ez peak charger. Just set it to 6.0 amps and 7.4V. It just takes a bit longer to charge. Mine takes about 45 minutes to charge it fully after a good run in the rusty.

[altidude]

...when I tried to charge it using the EZ Peak charger I noticed that it only went up to 6000mah!! Is there a way to get around this or am I just out of luck when it comes to charging this battery with this charger?

Any solutions are welcome.

Maybe you have the capacity cut off set to 6000mah...

[stevenhousden]

Maybe you have the capacity cut off set to 6000mah...

The traxxas ez peak is only a 6 amp charger. That is as high as it will go making it impossible to charge at 6.5v. Just charge it at 6.0v it may take an extra 10 minutes.