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  1. #1
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    Upgrading to brushless!!!!!!!!!!

    Upgrading the pede to a bruchless sytem but wanted to get some feedback.. What is a good brushless system that doesn't have past histories of overheating and handles 3s. And how does the Traxxas 3350R: Velineon VXL-3s Brushless Power System stack up to the after market systems.

  2. #2
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    Anything will overheat it you are not careful with it. Over geared, always full throttle etc.. can be a bad combination. That being said, there are limitless good systems out there. The factory 3500 4 pole system is pretty stout, and if you do not run like above, can live very happily on 3s. If upgrading from XL-5 remember that the diff ratios are different as it is geared lower in final drives and you will want a upgraded center shaft minimum.

    The stock system can be purchased at reasonable pricing many places. Castle is also well priced, adn available anywhere too. There are many systems from Hobbywing as kits as well, and I have been very happy. If you are anything like me, you better plan to upgrade the axles, and you will be learning how to glue tires pretty quick lol. I started with an XL-5, upgraded to all VXL specs, and now have 1/8 scale system... I am of the "there is never enough power" state of mind.

    End of the day, do some searches on here, there are a lot of great threads on combos that are working great.

  3. #3
    RC Qualifier JohnnyHildo's Avatar
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    if buying an upgraded motor system there are better choices then the 3500kv motor, it doesn't cope well with 3s. keep in mind that with more power you usually require upgrades elsewhere as well.
    sl4sh 2200 / p4de 2400

  4. #4
    RC Qualifier ljl23's Avatar
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    The VXL System is a great system. But honestly in my mind I think it's a bit over priced. I would reccomend the Castle Sidewinder 3 System or the Dynamite Tazer system
    Slash 4x4 and Slash VXL owner

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    OK,,, will you elaborate more on the diff ratios?? not sure what you mean on that whole subject...

    and what did you do to upgrade "to all VXL specs" what do all the VXL specs consist of?

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyHildo View Post
    if buying an upgraded motor system there are better choices then the 3500kv motor, it doesn't cope well with 3s. keep in mind that with more power you usually require upgrades elsewhere as well.
    which is the 3500kv motor?? Im keeping the LiPo to 2s right now because well thats all I have. and yes im planning on upgrading in other places,, alumn parts, MIP cvd's, probably some big bore shocks too.

    Quote Originally Posted by ljl23 View Post
    The VXL System is a great system. But honestly in my mind I think it's a bit over priced. I would reccomend the Castle Sidewinder 3 System or the Dynamite Tazer system
    are there diff stages of these systems??? or if I go look for the "Dynamite Tazer" is there only one or several to choose from??
    Last edited by cooleocool; 08-19-2016 at 04:17 PM. Reason: merge

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by olongoria22 View Post
    OK,,, will you elaborate more on the diff ratios?? not sure what you mean on that whole subject...

    and what did you do to upgrade "to all VXL specs" what do all the VXL specs consist of?
    The diff ratio us taller in a brushed pede compared to a vxl. You will have to use a larger pinion on the motor to get the same speeds as a vxl. My lad has the same set up, start with say a 15tooth pinion and see how you go, maybe try a 17 tooth but watch your temps

  7. #7
    RC Qualifier JohnnyHildo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by olongoria22 View Post
    which is the 3500kv motor?? Im keeping the LiPo to 2s right now because well thats all I have. and yes im planning on upgrading in other places,, alumn parts, MIP cvd's, probably some big bore shocks too.
    the 3500kv motor is what you get when you buy a modern slash 4x4 in any package. it is fairly fast, "waterproof" and has a ton more power than you get out of the brushed systems. the downside to it is that the motor absolutely suffers heat issues on 3s and will still require you to check on it often on 2s.
    a good example of a situation where it is a letdown on 2s would be running in in grass. you can smoke your motor in 5 minutes by running it flat out on it. you still have to be diligent about checking the temps often even on smooth, non-restrictive surfaces.
    as i mentioned... in my and many other peoples opinions, there are better options to go with than what the truck is spec'd with.
    sl4sh 2200 / p4de 2400

  8. #8
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    My vxl 3500kv motor runs fine on 3s with 12/50 gearing. That refers to the pinion gear on motor shaft(12 tooth) and the spur gear that meshes with it(50 tooth).

    There is also different gearing to consider when upgrading a brushed P4de. That is in the differentials. The VXL diff ratio is 2.85. The brushed diff ratio is 3.92. The lower number is better for speed, the higher is better for bashing.

    Sent from Eastern Missouri
    Last edited by Briber; 08-13-2016 at 09:01 PM.
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  9. #9
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    Man am I glad I found this thread before ordering a pinion for my Brushed -to- Brushless upgrade!!! I was about to get a 13tooth pinion but that would have been a huge mistake!

    So I wonder why the features section on the VXL trunk don't include something like "brushless optimized gearing"? Maybe I missed it...

    Anyway, doing some quick calculations I came up with this:

    VXL FDR = 13.99 (2.85 internal ratio 54/11 Spur/Pinion) Optional gearing (54/17) = FDR of 9.05
    Brushed FDR = 23.52 ! (3.92 internal ratio 54/9 Spur/Pinion)

    So to get a similar FDR as the STD VXL gearing the Brushed based truck would need a 15 tooth Pinion (FDR = 14.11) just to be roughly the same as the VXL truck. Just for reference a 16 tooth would put it the FDR at 13.23.

    So at this point I am planning to order a 16 or 17 tooth pinion (17 put the FDR at 12.45) for my truck.

    For what it's worth I upgraded to an aftermarket brushless system (relabeled Hobbywing 3800kv 4-pole Street Runner system). So far so good but until I get a gear ratio that is more suited to the brushless system I will hold off on final reviews.

    I am no RC rookie but I am new to the Stampede world! So glad you guys have a great forum!


    Anyway thanks again for the informative posts!
    Chris

  10. #10
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    A 13t pinion would most definitely not have been a mistake.11-13t pinion is what you'll run for 3s bashing. 15-16t for 2s bashing. 17t and higher is only for speed run and you must watch temps closely or you will overheat esc and motor! I run 12/50 in all my p4des. Ones a vxl, one is a brushed pede ive upgraded to xo1 diffs and vxl gearing and the other is a straight up vxl. The 3500 to 3800 kv motors just tend to generate a lot of heat on 3s especially when running above 15t pinion. 12 has seemed to be the magic number with 50t spur. Now on the other 2 for normal bashing have 2200 and 2700 kv motors so pumping the voltage to them is no problem yet I still run 12-15t pinions with 50t spurs. One I run on 3s and the other on 4s and they flat haul as well as are great for normal bashing. This is my experience, hope it helps you. The 2200 im currently converting into straight speed runner but after I achieve a few triple digit runs it'll be a 4s basher.... until I decide to go for breaking my own record lol.

    Sent from Eastern Missouri
    Last edited by Briber; 08-15-2016 at 08:51 PM.
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  11. #11
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    The 3800 will be good but watch heat. I would get pinions from 13 to 16 and see where it is happy. My 2700likes 18 54 for repetitive 3s packs but I can go 20 50 for a pack without overheating.

  12. #12
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    Yeah, I should have mentioned I am running 2s and mostly bashing. No speed runs of any kind. I am leaning toward 16 as it is only slightly more gear than the std VXL FDR. A 15tooth puts me slightly steeper.

    But then again if I were to go with a 15 that might be better "all around" and help keep the motor cooler longer. I have 5200 30c Lipos so I get a decent amount of run time so heat could be an issue if I'm not careful. I'll have to take my temp gun out with me when i gear up.

    Thanks!

    Chris

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    Quote Originally Posted by ccm399 View Post
    Yeah, I should have mentioned I am running 2s and mostly bashing. No speed runs of any kind. I am leaning toward 16 as it is only slightly more gear than the std VXL FDR. A 15tooth puts me slightly steeper.

    But then again if I were to go with a 15 that might be better "all around" and help keep the motor cooler longer. I have 5200 30c Lipos so I get a decent amount of run time so heat could be an issue if I'm not careful. I'll have to take my temp gun out with me when i gear up.

    Thanks!

    Chris
    Sounds like a great plan. I'd really recomend going to 50t spur. Theres just a better all around acceleration and it adds that little extra top end. Its a quick and smooth run up to full speed and seems to still have decent low end wheelie popping power.

    I've been super happy and impressed with 12-15t/50 gearing on any battery! Keeping the pinion on the smaller side(11-15) and reducing spur was a total mistake at first but after testing I started seeing benefits and its stuck ever sense.

    Bottom line.... play around with it and find what you like!
    Sent from Eastern Missouri
    Last edited by Briber; 08-15-2016 at 09:01 PM.
    Just need one more rc, then Ill be done...

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Briber View Post
    My vxl 3500kv motor runs fine on 3s with 12/50 gearing. That refers to the pinion gear on motor shaft(12 tooth) and the spur gear that meshes with it(50 tooth).

    There is also different gearing to consider when upgrading a brushed P4de. That is in the differentials. The VXL diff ratio is 2.85. The brushed diff ratio is 3.92. The lower number is better for speed, the higher is better for bashing.

    Sent from Eastern Missouri
    great info,,, I'm stuck on the ratio part> you are talking about the differentials that are in the diff housing? What does your numbers, 2.85 and 3.92 mean? thanks for the help..

    Quote Originally Posted by ccm399 View Post
    Man am I glad I found this thread before ordering a pinion for my Brushed -to- Brushless upgrade!!! I was about to get a 13tooth pinion but that would have been a huge mistake!

    So I wonder why the features section on the VXL trunk don't include something like "brushless optimized gearing"? Maybe I missed it...

    Anyway, doing some quick calculations I came up with this:

    VXL FDR = 13.99 (2.85 internal ratio 54/11 Spur/Pinion) Optional gearing (54/17) = FDR of 9.05
    Brushed FDR = 23.52 ! (3.92 internal ratio 54/9 Spur/Pinion)

    So to get a similar FDR as the STD VXL gearing the Brushed based truck would need a 15 tooth Pinion (FDR = 14.11) just to be roughly the same as the VXL truck. Just for reference a 16 tooth would put it the FDR at 13.23.

    So at this point I am planning to order a 16 or 17 tooth pinion (17 put the FDR at 12.45) for my truck.

    For what it's worth I upgraded to an aftermarket brushless system (relabeled Hobbywing 3800kv 4-pole Street Runner system). So far so good but until I get a gear ratio that is more suited to the brushless system I will hold off on final reviews.

    I am no RC rookie but I am new to the Stampede world! So glad you guys have a great forum!


    Anyway thanks again for the informative posts!
    Chris
    Cool calculations bro but could you break that down a little. What does FDR stand for? Is there a particular number you are striving for? I'm not quite understanding what is trying to be achieved here.. Thanks in advanced for the explanation and help..


    Edited for language abuse. If you see a starred out word in your post, you must edit it out to avoid earning warning points.
    Last edited by cooleocool; 08-19-2016 at 04:15 PM. Reason: merge & language abuse

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by olongoria22 View Post
    calculations bro but could you break that down a little. What does FDR stand for
    FDR means Final Drive Ratio... The number your shooting for depends on what you want. On my speed runner I'm looking for a 1:1 ratio. If rock crawling you'll want a high ratio or number.
    Quote Originally Posted by olongoria22 View Post
    great info,,, I'm stuck on the ratio part> you are talking about the differentials that are in the diff housing? What does your numbers, 2.85 and 3.92 mean? thanks for the help..
    Yes I'm referring to the pinion and ring gear inside differentials.

    There 2 gearing areas we are posting about.

    One is the pinion on your motor and the spur gear it meshes with. Usually shown in threads as 11/54 or I run 15 tooth pinion on motor and a 50 tooth spur on slipper indicated by 15/50.

    The other gearing being referred to in the diffs. The gear that goes into the diff is also called a pinion and it meshes with what's called the ring gear.

    How you get gearing ratios are dividing one number(tooth count) by the other tooth count number. This is taken from another thread in reference to diff gearing. Take the 37 13 gives the 2.85 number.

    Sent from Eastern Missouri
    Last edited by Briber; 08-19-2016 at 12:18 PM.
    Just need one more rc, then Ill be done...

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Briber View Post
    FDR means Final Drive Ratio... The number your shooting for depends on what you want. On my speed runner I'm looking for a 1:1 ratio. If rock crawling you'll want a high ratio or number.

    Yes I'm referring to the pinion and ring gear inside differentials.

    There 2 gearing areas we are posting about.

    One is the pinion on your motor and the spur gear it meshes with. Usually shown in threads as 11/54 or I run 15 tooth pinion on motor and a 50 tooth spur on slipper indicated by 15/50.

    The other gearing being referred to in the diffs. The gear that goes into the diff is also called a pinion and it meshes with what's called the ring gear.

    How you get gearing ratios are dividing one number(tooth count) by the other tooth count number. This is taken from another thread in reference to diff gearing. Take the 37 13 gives the 2.85 number.

    Sent from Eastern Missouri
    awesome,,awesome,,, ok so then its 2.85 to what? if the optimal ratio is 1:1 the its 2.85 to what? what does the 2.85 stand for and what does the other number stand for? thanks again..

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    ^^^^ What Briber Said ^^^^^

    I am not shooting for any particular FDR I just wanted to start "close" to the VXL 4x4 FDR so I knew I should be in the ball park. With a 15t pinion my trunk is a lot of fun and the motor and ESC stay within temp limits running a 2s 5200mah Lipo (from a manufacturer that shall not be named...)

    Yesterday running mainly flatout for 20 minutes straight (short breaks to temp the motor ans ESC) I ended up at 165 ish on the motor and 129 I think was the high number on the ESC. My motor manufacturer's paperwork says to keep it under 194 for reference.

    Quote Originally Posted by olongoria22 View Post
    awesome,,awesome,,, ok so then its 2.85 to what? if the optimal ratio is 1:1 the its 2.85 to what? what does the 2.85 stand for and what does the other number stand for? thanks again..
    Ok so... 1:1 is only "optimal" for Briber's speed run only truck. He is trying to get as close to 1:1 ratio as he can. This means for every 1 revolution of the motor his tires will turn on full revolution as well. This will NOT work for anything but flat out speed runs.

    For bashing or running at the track you are going to need a ratio more like the stock VXL truck (13.99) This means the motor has to revolve 14 times (almost) to get the tires to make one complete revolution. My FDR of 14.11 seems to work very well on 2s with a 3800kv 4-Pole motor.

    There is no such thing as optimal... Everyone drives different (throttle control etc) and of course everyone wants a slightly different thing out of their truck.

    Basically pick a pinion and keep an eye on the temps. If you don't have a temp gun rule of thumb is if you can keep your finger on the motor for more than about 2 seconds (without getting burned) you aren't too hot.

    Chris
    Last edited by cooleocool; 08-19-2016 at 04:18 PM. Reason: merge

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Briber View Post
    FDR means Final Drive Ratio... The number your shooting for depends on what you want. On my speed runner I'm looking for a 1:1 ratio. If rock crawling you'll want a high ratio or number.

    Yes I'm referring to the pinion and ring gear inside differentials.

    There 2 gearing areas we are posting about.

    One is the pinion on your motor and the spur gear it meshes with. Usually shown in threads as 11/54 or I run 15 tooth pinion on motor and a 50 tooth spur on slipper indicated by 15/50.

    The other gearing being referred to in the diffs. The gear that goes into the diff is also called a pinion and it meshes with what's called the ring gear.

    How you get gearing ratios are dividing one number(tooth count) by the other tooth count number. This is taken from another thread in reference to diff gearing. Take the 37 13 gives the 2.85 number.

    Sent from Eastern Missouri
    so then with mine being a 4x4 i will need 2 of #5379X one for each diff??

    Quote Originally Posted by ccm399 View Post
    Ok so... 1:1 is only "optimal" for Briber's speed run only truck. He is trying to get as close to 1:1 ratio as he can. This means for every 1 revolution of the motor his tires will turn on full revolution as well. This will NOT work for anything but flat out speed runs.

    For bashing or running at the track you are going to need a ratio more like the stock VXL truck (13.99) This means the motor has to revolve 14 times (almost) to get the tires to make one complete revolution. My FDR of 14.11 seems to work very well on 2s with a 3800kv 4-Pole motor.

    There is no such thing as optimal... Everyone drives different (throttle control etc) and of course everyone wants a slightly different thing out of their truck.

    Basically pick a pinion and keep an eye on the temps. If you don't have a temp gun rule of thumb is if you can keep your finger on the motor for more than about 2 seconds (without getting burned) you aren't too hot.

    Chris
    where did you learned what the stock FDR was??

    Briber,, so im doing all bashing, no speed runs, with a CC sidewinder system running in 2s. I'm going to get #5379X dor the diff's,, what would your suggestion be for the pinion and spur gear set-up?
    Last edited by cooleocool; 08-19-2016 at 04:18 PM. Reason: merge

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by olongoria22 View Post
    Briber,, so im doing all bashing, no speed runs, with a CC sidewinder system running in 2s. I'm going to get #5379X dor the diff's,, what would your suggestion be for the pinion and spur gear set-up?
    In my Vxl and when I had the sct system with 3800kv motor I ran 12/50

    Quote Originally Posted by ccm399 View Post
    Yesterday running mainly flatout for 20 minutes straight (short breaks to temp the motor ans ESC) I ended up at 165 ish on the motor and 129 I think was the high number on the ESC. My motor manufacturer's paperwork says to keep it under 194 for reference.
    I apologize if you already know this but I'd hate for my fellow rc hobbiest to ruin a motor. The 194 reference is not optimal for motor. Just like your real vehicle there is a optimal operating temp range which is different from max operating temperature. For motors your best temp range for performance & longevity is 140-160. If exceeding 160 then you really should put smaller pinion on. On esc I won't let mine go past 150. Excessive heat build up but still within manufacturers temp range did this to me. Loosened solder and chips came off board. That was a "6s capable" esc for my speed runner, ummmm I don't think it really was ment to be ran on 6s after seeing that lol.
    We all put good money in to these things to be frying motors and esc. If you like the performance your getting but running above normal temps then think about lower kv motor in 1/10 scale or even going to 1/8 scale motor.

    Other than that agree with ya and looks like you've done your homework. I'm more the type to tinker and make adjustments and let the vehicle tell me what to do according to performance and temps. Lol
    Sent from Eastern Missouri
    Last edited by Briber; 08-19-2016 at 03:47 PM.
    Just need one more rc, then Ill be done...

  20. #20
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    Thank you sir.

    Yes I know the 194 is MAX and I am a thinking a 13 or 14 tooth might be a better choice for pinions if I want to do more hard running in the grass or back to back packs. However, as I said I was being pretty hard on it just to see where the temps would go. I wouldn't normally run the truck like that.

    I typically like to run at the track mostly so I would NEVER be on the throttle that long! For now I'll keep my temp gun handy.

    I like to tinker and "do the math". Basically I like to know the "why" behind the changes and results. It's a sickness. Racing on-road foam tire cars with a SUPER analytic buddy of mine DIDN'T help either! We were calculating rollout for every run to account for tire wear and such. Lots of fun but lots of work too.

    olongoria22
    I calculated the FDR. You take the internal ratio (2.85 or 3.92 depending on the truck you are talking about) and multiple that by the primary ratio (the spur and pinion). So the math looks like this for our trucks:

    Primary*Internal=

    (Spur/Pinion)*(Ring/Pinion)

    (54/15)*(47/12)

    3.6*3.92=14.11

    Plug your numbers in there as you see fit.

    VXL Internal = 2.85 (37/13)
    XL5 Internal = 3.92 (47/12)

    Until next time!
    Chris
    Last edited by ccm399; 08-19-2016 at 05:09 PM.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccm399 View Post
    Thank you sir.

    Yes I know the 194 is MAX and I am a thinking a 13 or 14 tooth might be a better choice for pinions if I want to do more hard running in the grass or back to back packs. However, as I said I was being pretty hard on it just to see where the temps would go. I wouldn't normally run the truck like that.

    I typically like to run at the track mostly so I would NEVER be on the throttle that long! For now I'll keep my temp gun handy.

    I like to tinker and "do the math". Basically I like to know the "why" behind the changes and results. It's a sickness. Racing on-road foam tire cars with a SUPER analytic buddy of mine DIDN'T help either! We were calculating rollout for every run to account for tire wear and such. Lots of fun but lots of work too.

    olongoria22
    I calculated the FDR. You take the internal ratio (2.85 or 3.92 depending on the truck you are talking about) and multiple that by the primary ratio (the spur and pinion). So the math looks like this for our trucks:

    Primary*Internal=

    (Spur/Pinion)*(Ring/Pinion)

    (54/15)*(47/12)

    3.6*3.92=14.11

    Plug your numbers in there as you see fit.

    VXL Internal = 2.85 (37/13)
    XL5 Internal = 3.92 (47/12)

    Until next time!
    Chris
    I totally get where your coming from, I too over analyze things (ask the wife) lol, but you my friend.... thats way deeper lol. Borderline ocd??? Lmbo

    Sent from Eastern Missouri
    Just need one more rc, then Ill be done...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Briber View Post
    I totally get where your coming from, I too over analyze things (ask the wife) lol, but you my friend.... thats way deeper lol. Borderline ocd??? Lmbo

    Sent from Eastern Missouri
    Borderline??? LOL

    I suppose I shouldn't tell you I have plotted the camber link and shock location on more than one chassis so I could calculate roll centers, camber gains and wheel rates....

    Yeah, I may dig a little deeper than I should.

    Chris

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    Quote Originally Posted by ccm399 View Post
    Borderline??? LOL

    I suppose I shouldn't tell you I have plotted the camber link and shock location on more than one chassis so I could calculate roll centers, camber gains and wheel rates....

    Yeah, I may dig a little deeper than I should.

    Chris
    Wow, but all joking aside, in racing, I can totally see that being necessary to gain a performance edge!

    Sent from Eastern Missouri
    Just need one more rc, then Ill be done...

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    Im gonna buy this, will it work good together??
    https://www.amainhobbies.com/castle-...108-01/p248585
    https://www.amazon.ca/Venom-5000mAh-...words=venom+4s

    its a stock lcg 4x4 stampede (Brushed), what gearing should i run for bashing?

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Svillax View Post
    Im gonna buy this, will it work good together??
    https://www.amainhobbies.com/castle-...108-01/p248585
    https://www.amazon.ca/Venom-5000mAh-...words=venom+4s

    its a stock lcg 4x4 stampede (Brushed), what gearing should i run for bashing?
    Wow thats high dollar! Try SMC batteries. Their a little less expensive and just as good! You cant run 4s in stock slash and pedes.

    Sent from Eastern Missouri
    Last edited by Briber; 08-25-2016 at 03:26 PM.
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    ya bro, I cant seem to be able find lipo's in Canada.

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    I am gonna use a dremel and cut slits in the chasis for two velcro straps.

  28. #28
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    A 3s fits in battery tray on stampede with battery expansion kit. You really only need straps for running dual batts.

    Sent from Eastern Missouri
    Just need one more rc, then Ill be done...

  29. #29
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    expansion kit cant fit 4s tho?

  30. #30
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    A stock brushed stampede xl5 esc can not handle 14.8v 4s battery.

    I don't know of a lcg chassis for the stampede. Do you have a slash? Those have lcg and hcg chassis, pedes do not.

    Sent from Eastern Missouri
    Just need one more rc, then Ill be done...

  31. #31
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    Steinbach, Manitoba
    Posts
    66
    Quote Originally Posted by Svillax View Post
    ya bro, I cant seem to be able find lipo's in Canada.
    Someone just PM'd me, if anyone else looking for cheap lipos in canada this is a great place
    http://begoracing.com/shop/index.php...ory&path=42_46

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