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  1. #81
    RC Champion nickruger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rag6 View Post
    And I puffed my 3rd pack in 3 outings...
    I also have a 5400mah that puffed enough to pop the hard case open. I just ran a 6700mah 4s in my pro mt 4x4 running a monster x and s castle 2650kv, loosened up my battery straps and guess what, pop, hard case popped open. Last week one of my 4500mah 3s hard packs was a little swollen when I took it out of my revo 2.0 and I have been religous with those. These were mostly purchased last year. I bought the 9200mah 4s for my Xmaxx within the past 3 months and those have been good so far. When did you purchase yours? The 2 smaller 4s packs are running around 7-8 ohms IR. What is an acceptable number?

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  2. #82
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. rag6's Avatar
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    They started at 3 ohm. I bought those 14 mo ago I think. There is a formula where ir value relates to c rating and watt values. I don't know it, but I'm pretty sure as the ir is going up the c rating is going down. Higher c rated packs should have lower ir readings. That's how I think it works...
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  3. #83
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. ReglarGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rag6 View Post
    I'm pretty sure as the ir is going up the c rating is going down.
    You're right Rag, IR is inversely proportional to Capacity.

    Quote Originally Posted by rag6 View Post
    Higher C rated packs should have lower IR readings. That's how I think it works...
    What I've always seen is that the C ratings all start out about the same. I generally see new batteries at 15 or 20C. As they get older they go from 20 and 15C down to 10C. The other big thing I see is the higher the C rating is the more available current there is, and when IR goes up that the available current goes down.

    Generally, battery companies want you to dump their batteries when it drops 20% of its' total C, 20% of its total available current, or when their IR hit 20 ohms. I personally, don't go by total. I keep an eye on each cell of a battery, and as long as all the cells are wearing equally, I let them go until my run time isn't worth my charge time.

    The only time I use the 20% rule of a battery is if I see a cell drop in performance compared to the other cells in the pack. When that cell develops a 20%-30% difference in IR, C or available current; then I dump it or only run it down to a higher LVC until I get a replacement. I'm not saying that's how you guys should go, but it works well for me.
    Last edited by ReglarGuy; 06-05-2019 at 03:57 AM.
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  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReglarGuy View Post
    You're right Rag, IR is inversely proportional to Capacity....
    Just when I thought I had a handle on lipo you drop this wisdom to add to my knowledge bank. Thanks!
    The Super Derecho

  5. #85
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. ReglarGuy's Avatar
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    Cool! I'm glad I was able to help.
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  6. #86
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. rag6's Avatar
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    I said nothing about capacity. The packs are taking the same mAh... But the ir is climbing. Anytime the ir starts climbing, the packs puff soon after....
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  7. #87
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. ReglarGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rag6 View Post
    I said nothing about capacity. The packs are taking the same mAh... But the ir is climbing. Anytime the ir starts climbing, the packs puff soon after....
    I'm not saying you did. I was just explaining what I see, from what tests I do, as my batteries go though their normal life cycle.
    Last edited by ReglarGuy; 06-06-2019 at 02:34 AM.
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  8. #88
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. rag6's Avatar
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    Got the packs from power hobby directly through ebay. The pair we're 120$ shipped. Both packs arrived perfectly balanced at 3.83v on all 8 cells. Charging as I type, they are staying balanced as they charge. I will post the ir reading after the charge is complete.

    ***I would also like to note that power hobby suggests a 1c charge rate. So if your looking to charge faster than that, the manufacturer recommends against that***

    Wait a min... The battery itself says 2c charge rate.... The instructions say 1c...
    I will go with the 1c rate to be safe, and email power hobby and ask which is correct
    Last edited by rag6; 06-06-2019 at 12:25 PM.
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  9. #89
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. rag6's Avatar
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    My charger gets down to 1000ths of a volt... These cells are very, very well matched.

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  10. #90
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. rag6's Avatar
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    It took 39 min to charge at 4.7 amps(the max I can charge 4s packs at on AC with this charger.) From storage. It would take the same with smc 5400's.

    My smcs would take 2500 from storage. So the mAh seems reasonable, but a little under what I thought.

    The 10 mOhms is about right comparable to my past 50 and 60c packs.

    So far so good. Let's see how they handle my lead finger. I'll update if the specs start to change.

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  11. #91
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. ReglarGuy's Avatar
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    Rags, do your chargers measure your IR or do you have another test box for that?
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  12. #92
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. rag6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReglarGuy View Post
    Rags, do your chargers measure your IR or do you have another test box for that?
    It's in the photos if you look.

    Edit: sorry was walking while posting lol, yes the Hyperion chargers measure IR


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    Last edited by rag6; 06-06-2019 at 04:16 PM.
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  13. #93
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. rag6's Avatar
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    I do have a fluke meter multi tester but I don't know if that can measure internal resistance. I mainly use it to make sure my chargers are accurate

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  14. #94
    RC Champion nickruger's Avatar
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    Here's an example of what regular guy was talking about capacity related to IR. Same batteries, 7200smc 3s. Notice the the lower IR on the one on the right and how much more may it took to charge it. This was just now I was charging these.

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  15. #95
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. rag6's Avatar
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    I do like how the charger shows individual cell IR instead of lumping them together and giving a total like mine. Just wondering, what c rating were those cells?

    I will check every10 cycles and see if the mAh from storage drops ... And if IR goes up with it..
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  16. #96
    RC Champion nickruger's Avatar
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    I charged this round at 2c from storage. They usually get charged at 4 amps.

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  17. #97
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. rag6's Avatar
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    I was getting the same accumulated ir as your older pack after 15 cycles with my smc 5400 90cs.

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  18. #98
    RC Champion nickruger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rag6 View Post
    I was getting the same accumulated ir as your older pack after 15 cycles with my smc 5400 90cs.

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    Sad thing is, is that I bought those at the same time. Why one is worse than the other I dont know. Always storage charged, never over drawn. I've only ran these enough to try to keep them healthy. Probably only about 10-12 cycles. Oh, always ran as a pair too in my erevo 2.0.

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  19. #99
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. rag6's Avatar
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    Those 2 pixs you posted are the same pack. Same label peel in top right, and same piece of dirt near wire exit...
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  20. #100
    RC Champion nickruger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rag6 View Post
    Those 2 pixs you posted are the same pack. Same label peel in top right, and same piece of dirt near wire exit...
    The 2 batteries that were on the charger in my first pick with the IR readings are a pair of the same batteries. Yes, the actual pic of the battery is just one of the pair.

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  21. #101
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. rag6's Avatar
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    Cool. I've put up pics before and got them confused. Thought maybe that's what happened

    Do you notice that the cells with higher IR are lower voltage after a run and before charging?
    Last edited by rag6; 06-06-2019 at 08:48 PM.
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  22. #102
    RC Champion nickruger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rag6 View Post
    Cool. I've put up pics before and got them confused. Thought maybe that's what happened

    Do you notice that the cells with higher IR are lower voltage after a run and before charging?
    I haven't followed it that closely until now. So no I haven't noticed. I will start tracking that now that this thread has me intrigued.

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  23. #103
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. rag6's Avatar
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    From my experience, it's looking like that higher IR pack is gonna get the same amount of cycles as my 5400's
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  24. #104
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. ReglarGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nickruger View Post
    What kind of charger is that? That's a pretty nice little charger you got there. Having one that measures individual IR seems to be rare. I have another test box that gives me individual cell IR, and other individual info.

    To Rag's point, it's a lot better getting the heath of the individual battery cells rather than the whole battery pack. That way you can pair up your batteries that have like spec's. I have found, if you do that, your batteries last longer; because if you pair up non-similarly spec batteries, the battery that has the worst spec's gets beat up and wears out faster.

    What works well for me is completely testing my batteries several times a year. When I do this, I mark each cell's spec's (of each battery) on each battery. Then I pair them up according to their spec's, and mark the pairs as a set. For example: 1a and 1b is one pair with like individual cell spec's, 2a and 2b an other, and so on.

    What that does for me is, it lets me use a lower LVC without prematurely wearing out a weaker battery in a pair. When I first started using Lipo batteries years ago, I just used/paired my batteries with no rhyme or reason, and would experience having some of my batteries getting hotter and wearing out quicker than others.

    Now, I get a lot more even wear, and get a lot more time out of my batteries. (IMO) either a person needs to keep their battery pairs matched, or they need to set their LVC to a point that doesn't stress their weakest battery.

    Commenting on another of Rag's point, I'm not saying that Fluke doesn't make a multi-meter that measures IR, but I've never seen it. Also, thanks for pointing out your picture of your battery charger's IR capability. I didn't see it when I first looked.

    To DoubleG's point.

    Just when I thought I had a handle on lipo you drop this wisdom to add to my knowledge bank. Thanks!
    I don't think any of us will ever get a full grip on Lipo batteries. I'm like you. When I think I got it straight in my head, I learn something else new. (lol)
    Last edited by ReglarGuy; 06-07-2019 at 05:17 AM.
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  25. #105
    RC Racer hammie4c's Avatar
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    Looks like an icharger 406 https://www.amainhobbies.com/junsi-i...406duo/p484125


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  26. #106
    RC Champion nickruger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReglarGuy View Post
    What kind of charger is that? That's a pretty nice little charger you got there. Having one that measures individual IR seems to be rare. I have another test box that gives me individual cell IR, and other individual info.

    To Rag's point, it's a lot better getting the heath of the individual battery cells rather than the whole battery pack. That way you can pair up your batteries that have like spec's. I have found, if you do that, your batteries last longer; because if you pair up non-similarly spec batteries, the battery that has the worst spec's gets beat up and wears out faster.

    What works well for me is completely testing my batteries several times a year. When I do this, I mark each cell's spec's (of each battery) on each battery. Then I pair them up according to their spec's, and mark the pairs as a set. For example: 1a and 1b is one pair with like individual cell spec's, 2a and 2b an other, and so on.

    What that does for me is, it lets me use a lower LVC without prematurely wearing out a weaker battery in a pair. When I first started using Lipo batteries years ago, I just used/paired my batteries with no rhyme or reason, and would experience having some of my batteries getting hotter and wearing out quicker than others.

    Now, I get a lot more even wear, and get a lot more time out of my batteries. (IMO) either a person needs to keep their battery pairs matched, or they need to set their LVC to a point that doesn't stress their weakest battery.

    Commenting on another of Rag's point, I'm not saying that Fluke doesn't make a multi-meter that measures IR, but I've never seen it. Also, thanks for pointing out your picture of your battery charger's IR capability. I didn't see it when I first looked.

    To DoubleG's point.



    I don't think any of us will ever get a full grip on Lipo batteries. I'm like you. When I think I got it straight in my head, I learn something else new. (lol)
    It is an iCharger 406 duo. All this info is helpful. I'm getting a better grasp on lipo care and longevity. There is a rabbit hole you can go down when it comes to lipo care and maximization, never realized it was THIS technical.

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  27. #107
    Marshal Double G's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hammie4c View Post
    Looks like an icharger 406 https://www.amainhobbies.com/junsi-i...406duo/p484125


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    Looks like... It is! - says it right above the display. Looks like a very nice charger though well out of my budget at this time.
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  28. #108
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. rag6's Avatar
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    More affordable version:
    https://www.amainhobbies.com/junsi-i...jun-x6/p773438

    This may be my next charger. The Hyperion has been chugging along for the better part of a decade, and I love it, but this thread is showing me that it's outdated.

    Pretty informative vid on x6 features
    https://youtu.be/6LRYSufvBKw
    Last edited by rag6; 06-07-2019 at 07:55 AM.
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  29. #109
    RC Champion nickruger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rag6 View Post
    More affordable version:
    https://www.amainhobbies.com/junsi-i...jun-x6/p773438

    This may be my next charger. The Hyperion has been chugging along for the better part of a decade, and I love it, but this thread is showing me that it's outdated.

    Pretty informative vid on x6 features
    https://youtu.be/6LRYSufvBKw
    Yeah I researched chargers and power supplies for almost 2 years, getting an xmaxx forced me into pulling the trigger. That x6 was under consideration for me, it is very powerful and compact, just not a dual charger. If that's not a concern it's a real good choice. Power supplies are readily available and reasonable, so you could be under 200$ all in for that x6 and power supply and be very happy. The 406 duo at full capacity is more than most people would ever need, I just didn't want to ever have to upgrade again. Here is a power supply that would max out the x6 capability.
    https://www.rlpower.net/products/75-amp-power-supply

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    Last edited by nickruger; 06-07-2019 at 10:31 AM.

  30. #110
    RC Champion nickruger's Avatar
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    Well I ran those same 2 SMC 7200mah 3s that had the pretty big IR difference today. After run voltage was almost identical. I didn't get to run them all the way down. I threw them on the charger and after a storage charge they are almost identical now. This was the first time I cycled them in probably 2 months. Was actually a little worried I might of left them sitting to long. I did check the voltage before I ran them. All three cells were within +- .03 of each other. It looks like cell 2 on the first battery will be the first one to pay the piper.

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    Last edited by nickruger; 06-07-2019 at 08:18 PM.

  31. #111
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. rag6's Avatar
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    It's like you woke them up...

    The x8 charger... Guess if I run a parallel board, the individual ir readings won't show all 8 cells

    I'd love to be able to 2c charge 2 packs at once at the bashplex
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  32. #112
    RC Champion nickruger's Avatar
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    Just retired a 5200 mah SMC 4s True Spec. The pack swelled a while back and popped open, but it had been alright. I put it on the charger and watched it. The 3rd cell had an IR of 4 ohms, within 3 minutes cell 3 was at 4.20 volts and the pack was continuing to swell. I shut it down and took it outside. Glad I was watching. The charger wasn't letting it go over 4.20volts, still scary nonetheless.

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  33. #113
    RC Champion nickruger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rag6 View Post
    It's like you woke them up...

    The x8 charger... Guess if I run a parallel board, the individual ir readings won't show all 8 cells

    I'd love to be able to 2c charge 2 packs at once at the bashplex
    Just to tempt you a little more, it takes my 9200mah 4s 15 minutes to charge from storage at 2c. So 2 batteries in 15 minutes is worth what it costs. You wouldn't regret it.

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  34. #114
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. rag6's Avatar
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    Just did 1st 2 cycles on the new packs. All 8 cells were 3.71 to 3.73 resting after lvc.

    Charged both up again and took 25 min each at 2c from lvc. Ran them till I thought they were near storage and shut er down. All cells were either 3.77 or 3.78.

    I am happy with the packs performance on 1st 2 runs. These 50c packs feel a bit stronger than the 90c's(30 runs) they are replacing. They were only warm after the runs, so far so good 8)

    I lost a wheel nut somehow, and won't be able to run till prob wed. I'll check ir when I charge for Wednesday's runs...

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  35. #115
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. rag6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nickruger View Post
    Just to tempt you a little more, it takes my 9200mah 4s 15 minutes to charge from storage at 2c. So 2 batteries in 15 minutes is worth what it costs. You wouldn't regret it.

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    The x8 will do the same I'm thinking. I will email them and ask how to charge 2 4s packs at same time...

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  36. #116
    RC Champion nickruger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rag6 View Post
    The x8 will do the same I'm thinking. I will email them and ask how to charge 2 4s packs at same time...

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    These work
    https://www.powerhobby.com/paraboard...prbrd-trx.html

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  37. #117
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. rag6's Avatar
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    I would think I'd need an 9 pin balance port(8s) instead of a 7 pin(6s) going to charger in order to read all 8 cells individually. Otherwise the charger would be looking at 4 cells. That's where I'm confused.
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  38. #118
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. ReglarGuy's Avatar
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    You guys got me thinking about making me a battery discharging station. The only thing I don't like about our battery chargers is it seems like they can only discharge at a 1 amp rate. Some (like the charger Nick has) lets you hook-up an external discharger, but still (it seems) all stand alone chargers are restricted to a low current discharge.

    Having a discharging station that would let me discharge at a substantially higher rate would give me two advantages that I don't have now. It would (of course) let me discharge faster (allowing me to recycle my batteries faster), and it would let me check my batteries' spec's under a realistic testing load. Anyway, you guys got me going on another new project, and I'm sure my wife will love you all for that. (lol)
    Last edited by ReglarGuy; 06-09-2019 at 05:18 AM.
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  39. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by rag6 View Post
    I said nothing about capacity. The packs are taking the same mAh... But the ir is climbing. Anytime the ir starts climbing, the packs puff soon after....
    OT sure what IR stands for and how do you measure?

  40. #120
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. ReglarGuy's Avatar
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    On Topic here seems to be talking about the in and outs of Lipo's, Lipo charging, and Lipo chargers. Anyway, IR is Internal Resistance. Another resistive term you may come across is ESR, and that is Effective Series Resistance. To have them measured you need either a charger that can do it as one of its' measuring features, or you need specific stand alone test equipment.
    The ReglarGuy is kid tested and father approved.

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