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  1. #1
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    Trencher x's Ballooning Options

    Most of us have at one time or another have had our tires balloon and so far my Trenchers were the worst I've run personally.
    I started checking out foams and ended up at an upholstery shop where the owner started looking over my worn out stock ones. He thought they might be a 2.8 lb foam but (unsure because Pro-line stated it's proprietary) which is all good.

    I ended up with a 2.5 lb foam which is lighter but with a 150 firmness rating and the results are good so far and I plan on some major testing in the coming weeks.
    I know some might say it defeats the softness or flexibility that they were designed for but for my personal applications they have performed awesome in the 2 runs so far and I will update as time goes by.
    I always hated the taping method and balancing afterward and this is a $12.00 for 4 foam fix.
    I had them cut 1 1/4" thick and the 4" inches high.


    Zap straps I hate using rubber bands when gluing and an exacto knife tip pops the clip down to release them to be reused.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dz0kD_dbkUo

  2. #2
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. ReglarGuy's Avatar
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    I make my foams too, but I like taping method to minimize ballooning. I'm not trying to be a smart butt, but why reuse tie wraps...just toss them.
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  3. #3
    RC Champion lektro's Avatar
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    Sweet D. Rain Dawg, . It does greatly reduce the ballooning doesn't it. Any amount of reduction is a good thing. It seems you unglued an older set of tires to achieve this. If so, how did you do that?

    I honestly don't think the more dense/thicker foam will make enough difference in the softness to even notice. Well done sir and keep us posted on your future findings. Now I have all kinds of ideas running through my head.....

    That Emaxx sound's sweet. Smooth as butter.
    Last edited by lektro; 07-09-2018 at 06:43 AM.
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  4. #4
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. Nitronaught's Avatar
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    Many tracks I raced at you needed a soft compound tire which would like to balloon. Best way I have found to do tires... IF you follow this mounting procedure with using Gorilla tape or duct tape as belts on the inside as well as the rest of the mounting procedures and tricks I wrote up you are going to like how those tires work afterwards....
    https://forums.traxxas.com/showthrea...t=Tire+Glueing
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReglarGuy View Post
    I make my foams too, but I like taping method to minimize ballooning. I'm not trying to be a smart butt, but why reuse tie wraps...just toss them.
    The idea of having a firmer foam was to get away from taping and it seems to work I think the video speaks for itself. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dz0kD_dbkUo
    Reusing my zip ties probably stems from growing up on a farm where nothing is wasted and everything is reusable, besides I look at it as lessening my plastic foot print in the landfills.
    Why do you repack your bearings? You could just toss them. It might be pennies but it's still money.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by lektro View Post
    Sweet D. Rain Dawg, . It does greatly reduce the ballooning doesn't it. Any amount of reduction is a good thing. It seems you unglued an older set of tires to achieve this. If so, how did you do that?

    I honestly don't think the more dense/thicker foam will make enough difference in the softness to even notice. Well done sir and keep us posted on your future findings. Now I have all kinds of ideas running through my head.....

    That Emaxx sound's sweet. Smooth as butter.
    Thank you lektro. I am super pleased with this mod and it is definitely better then I had hoped and the traction and turning has improved if it's possible with the Trencher's.
    Yes these are about a yr old and the sidewalls were torn on all 4 from flexing and digging into the bead-locks so I boiled the rims off and reglued the rips with locktite 404 (call me cheap but there's still tread on them lol)
    These took about 2 hrs to boil off the rims, they did not want to release and it looked like they used a yellow glue at the factory like a plumbers cement.
    I wish I had a before video but you tube is full of them and almost all of us have experienced it.
    I'll post another video in the coming weeks running around.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitronaught View Post
    Many tracks I raced at you needed a soft compound tire which would like to balloon. Best way I have found to do tires... IF you follow this mounting procedure with using Gorilla tape or duct tape as belts on the inside as well as the rest of the mounting procedures and tricks I wrote up you are going to like how those tires work afterwards....
    https://forums.traxxas.com/showthrea...t=Tire+Glueing
    It's funny you replied I actually used your method from your thread a few yrs ago well before I ever joined these forums to do my Kongs. They are still going strong with no issues so Thank You.
    We have never raced or been to a track, all we run in is mud,water, sand and gravel pits or the occasional grassy fields.
    My goal was to just get away from the taping part and if I could just replace the foams and the tires still performed as designed, then what more could I ask for, it's one less step.
    They are working out very well for our application and I'm not sure how they would do in a racing environment but jumping with them is really nice compared to impacting on the rims like before.
    But it's still to early to tell and with more bashing to come I'm hoping this will solve my issues shredding tires from ballooning.

    So I've done, tried and tested your method and like what you've shared, so maybe one day the next time your redoing your tires you give my method a go and test it on a track to see how it holds up. I would be interested in your input under racing conditions on a track with a firmer foam and no tape lol.

  8. #8
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. ReglarGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rain Dawg View Post
    The idea of having a firmer foam was to get away from taping and it seems to work I think the video speaks for itself. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dz0kD_dbkUo
    Reusing my zip ties probably stems from growing up on a farm where nothing is wasted and everything is reusable, besides I look at it as lessening my plastic foot print in the landfills.
    Why do you repack your bearings? You could just toss them. It might be pennies but it's still money.
    1). I don't know Rain. I don't get nearly as much ballooning (using tape) as you're getting in your video. Like I said above, I think it's great that you're making your own foams (I make mine too), but I think you need to tape too...just my opinion.

    2). You're right about the environmental foot print concept thing. How I try to handle that is by limiting my use of things like tie wraps and straws as much as possible, but a small tie rap is less than a cent each, and a small bearing is a couple of bucks each. Anyway, I'm not criticizing you, I'm just trying to understand your reasonings.
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  9. #9
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. Nitronaught's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rain Dawg View Post
    It's funny you replied I actually used your method from your thread a few yrs ago well before I ever joined these forums to do my Kongs. They are still going strong with no issues so Thank You.
    We have never raced or been to a track, all we run in is mud,water, sand and gravel pits or the occasional grassy fields.
    My goal was to just get away from the taping part and if I could just replace the foams and the tires still performed as designed, then what more could I ask for, it's one less step.
    They are working out very well for our application and I'm not sure how they would do in a racing environment but jumping with them is really nice compared to impacting on the rims like before.
    But it's still to early to tell and with more bashing to come I'm hoping this will solve my issues shredding tires from ballooning.

    So I've done, tried and tested your method and like what you've shared, so maybe one day the next time your redoing your tires you give my method a go and test it on a track to see how it holds up. I would be interested in your input under racing conditions on a track with a firmer foam and no tape lol.
    I've mounted more tires for different setups than you can imagine. A stiffer foam will not balloon as much. For most who stay stock the ballooning shouldn't be as much of an issue..

    So let me get this straight, you are having to take apart your tires to replace the foams, scuff off the old glue, make some foams, mount them, glue them.. Yet you want to avoid a couple of minutes of putting 2 wraps of tape on the inside of the tire? Might as well take the extra 10 minutes of taping time... But that's just me...
    Last edited by Nitronaught; 07-10-2018 at 11:47 AM.
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  10. #10
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. ReglarGuy's Avatar
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    What I want to try someday is get those straps that people put around boxes when they ship them (like air conditioners), and glue and silicon them to the inside of one of our tires that we all use. It would act as a steel belt. Anyway, that's something I want to try down the road. Taping works reasonably well, but if these straps could be made to stay glued to the tires, then I think this technique would work out perfection...just one of my many thoughts.
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  11. #11
    RC Champion lektro's Avatar
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    I used fiberglass mesh and goop on a set of glocs. Ain't know way it will ever come apart. My only problem is I can't seem to find the time to try them. I know they won't balloon but the question is.... How will they perform.....I know 3 people that say they will be awesome. Me, Myself and I......
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReglarGuy View Post
    What I want to try someday is get those straps that people put around boxes when they ship them (like air conditioners), and glue and silicon them to the inside of one of our tires that we all use. It would act as a steel belt. Anyway, that's something I want to try down the road. Taping works reasonably well, but if these straps could be made to stay glued to the tires, then I think this technique would work out perfection...just one of my many thoughts.
    You think I haven't been there done that,,, but I have... I found not much help form that and it ate up my foams, I had been using Racers Edge racing foams and proline premolded foams or I cut the corners and rounded my foams to better form to the tire once inserted. That helped.
    I'll put dollar to dime, it's not as much the foams that cause the ballooning as it is the sidewalls and the rubber stretching. The tape re-enforces the tire, which is the main issue. If you could find a tire that was stiff enough to avoid ballooning you will find it's too stiff and not able to get decent traction "Offroad". The Funny Cars and XO-1's are using belted tires and that's pretty much what the tape does. As I always say, good luck, maybe I am wrong but I've done that before and it was a waster of time strapping the foams.
    This is only 1/2 of my tire collection for my Truggy and 3 TMAXX's You can see I have a few being glued. I use my older tires as R/C stands underneath. Ones that are good for practice but not for racing due to wear.


    Stiffer rubber compounds will balloon less, there are no cords or fibers in the rubber compounds used unlike motorcycle or 1:1 car tires.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitronaught View Post
    I've mounted more tires for different setups than you can imagine. A stiffer foam will not balloon as much. For most who stay stock the ballooning shouldn't be as much of an issue..

    So let me get this straight, you are having to take apart your tires to replace the foams, scuff off the old glue, make some foams, mount them, glue them.. Yet you want to avoid a couple of minutes of putting 2 wraps of tape on the inside of the tire? Might as well take the extra 10 minutes of taping time... But that's just me...
    No disrespect but you missed post #6. The sidewalls of these tires were torn up on all 4 so I took them apart to glue the sidewalls and that's when I seen the foams and decided to search for something better.
    So no I didn't deliberately take them apart to change the foams.
    Did these firmer foams 100% get rid of ballooning, NO but it did stop them from going pizza on me and that was what I was hoping for.
    In post #7 I stated I had used your thread to tape mine previously and there still going strong, I'm not against taping it's just something I don't feel I need for the bashing I do, so I chose to try something different maybe not for you (firmer foams) but for me.
    I've only put 4 packs through with this setup because of other priorities but this truck runs different. The traction is more intense and the overall handling and drifting plus the landings from jumps is improved.

    The title stated this was an option if you didn't want to tape and that's all this is for those that choose something different. The same or a different vehicle with different applications might sway me to tape and use a firmer foam together down the road, but right now I met the goals I set out for myself so far but it is still early in the testing stage.
    I very much do appreciate all of your input good or bad and obviously the years of testing you've done on tires and foams is an asset to the RC community so Thank You.

  14. #14
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. ReglarGuy's Avatar
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    You think I haven't been there done that... but I have.
    I'm not saying that.

    Maybe I am wrong, but I've done that before and it was a waster of time strapping the foams.
    I'm not saying strap the foams. I'm saying I want to glue and silicon straps to the inside of tires. Basically, replacing taping of the tires by adding a belt to the tires. When you get a chance take another look at Post # 10.
    The ReglarGuy is kid tested and father approved.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReglarGuy View Post
    What I want to try someday is get those straps that people put around boxes when they ship them (like air conditioners), and glue and silicon them to the inside of one of our tires that we all use. It would act as a steel belt. Anyway, that's something I want to try down the road. Taping works reasonably well, but if these straps could be made to stay glued to the tires, then I think this technique would work out perfection...just one of my many thoughts.
    I actually like this Idea lol. If you had a set of old tires and just for testing the glue tried using tire glue on the treads with the straps just to see how it sticks. The straps, if were on the same page are nylon or plastic I think and if the glue sticks to plastic rims and rubber why wouldn't it work for that application.
    Leave it to set and see how hard or easy it is to come off before you go to the trouble of doing the inside.

    Ok I just glued a piece to the treads of my Kongs (I can always use an exacto blade if this works or post a video) and I'll leave it over night and let you know how it holds up tomorrow sometime, this should be interesting nothing lost nothing gained.
    The tire glue I use is HPD IC-2000.

  16. #16
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    You need something different this glue did not stick.

  17. #17
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. ReglarGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rain Dawg View Post
    I actually like this Idea lol. If you had a set of old tires and just for testing the glue tried using tire glue on the treads with the straps just to see how it sticks.
    Actually, it wouldn't be the same as putting the straps on the inside of the tire. The reason being, you have two different directions of centrifugal force at play here (depending on where the straps are placed). If the strap is going around the outside of the tire, then the tire is pushing against the strap as it rotates. If the strap is going around the inside of the tire, then the tire is pulling away from the strap as it rotates.

    What I want to do is get one of those nylon shipping straps, staple it together to size of the inside of the tire, silicon it to the tire, and then contact cement a strip of innertube (covering the strap) to the inside of the tire. Contact cement will definitely hold two pieces of rubber together. Think back when you use to patch your bicycle innertubes back when you was a kid. It's the same concept.
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  18. #18
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. ReglarGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitronaught View Post
    Y
    Nice man area you got there for working on your stuff. Here's 1/2 of mine. I don't have a picture of my full work bench. However, the other side of my bench is setup for working sheet metal and charging batteries.

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  19. #19
    RC Champion lektro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReglarGuy View Post
    Actually, it wouldn't be the same as putting the straps on the inside of the tire. The reason being, you have two different directions of centrifugal force at play here (depending on where the straps are placed). If the strap is going around the outside of the tire, then the tire is pushing against the strap as it rotates. If the strap is going around the inside of the tire, then the tire is pulling away from the strap as it rotates.

    What I want to do is get one of those nylon shipping straps, staple it together to size of the inside of the tire, silicon it to the tire, and then contact cement a strip of innertube (covering the strap) to the inside of the tire. Contact cement will definitely hold two pieces of rubber together. Think back when you use to patch your bicycle innertubes back when you was a kid. It's the same concept.
    My question is why wouldn't you use the goop or E6000 as your adhesive for the straps. I works in the same principal as contact cement. You would have to do 3 inch lengths at a time seeing it sets up rather quickly. cover 3 inches of the inside with the goop stick on the strap, let dry and move on to the next 3 inches. It dries rather quickly once exposed to air.
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  20. #20
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. Nitronaught's Avatar
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    RegularGuy, I was posting my space so you could see how many different tires I had on that bench, look at the top shelve some of them were even being glued and taped...... I was like the Firestone of the race track, most all the regulars used to have me mount their buggy and truggy tires and I charged $25.00 to do 4. I would have charged more but they were all my track buddies.....
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