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  1. #1
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    It didn't take long - it's time to upgrade

    Less than a week of ownership and I want to upgrade to a brushless (yeah I should've gone brushless to begin with but that's another story). Mamba X is out of the price point. Hobbywing seems nice. But I'm really liking the Sidewinder 4 with 1415-2400Kv sensored motor. Anyone have any experience with this set up? Mainly want to speed around and take it to the track on occasion.
    Or does anyone else have an opinion on a good upgrade to brushless systems.
    Thanks in advance...

    Please watch the expressions you use here. Thanks! ksb51rl
    Last edited by ksb51rl; 12-13-2018 at 11:02 PM.
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  2. #2
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    Buy a Hobbywing EZ-RUN MAX-10 SCT combo with the 4000kv ezrun motor. You will get the best out of this in price, ease of programming, durability, and performance for the occasional racing. I race competitively in many classes(1/10 4WD sct outdoor, 1/8 ebuggy outdoor and 1/10 17.5 2wd buggy indoor carpet.)

    Don’t buy a sidewinder. It will overheat in a 4WD sct, especially a very heavy one like the slash. Good lord, if Hobbywing ever sees what I write on these forums and how much I recommend them,they’ll be astounded! I only run Hobbywing Xerun in my race rigs. Don’t bother with the Xerun because it’s meant for purely racing. Not bashing and occasionally racing.

    Also, a 2400kv motor is not good for racing at all. You can get way more performance out the HW 4000 than you can the CC 2400. Oh! Remember to disable TSM when you are at the track! It’s illegal and will also just hinder the truck from doing what you want it to. It’ll basically be like a defiant child who is hangry... not good! Feel free to ask more questions! Welcome to the Traxxas forums by the way.

    -Ev
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  3. #3
    RC Turnbuckle Jr.
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    Sidewinder 4 is under sized, but 4000 kv is way too high unless youíre staying on 2S geared high.

  4. #4
    Marshal ksb51rl's Avatar
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    I am wondering if EvHexRc believes that a Hobbywing motor system is the answer to everything? Well, everything except for wanting a reliable low voltage cutoff. There is no way a HW 4000kv motor will remain as cool under stress as a Castle 2400kv motor, especially in bashing conditions. I would think these factors would weigh heavily on the average userís buying decision.
    I am not reading the OPís post the same way. Does occasionally taking a truck to the track mean racing or just messing around on a groomed surface?
    Alt-248 on the number pad = į

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by ksb51rl View Post
    I am wondering if EvHexRc believes that a Hobbywing motor system is the answer to everything? Well, everything except for wanting a reliable low voltage cutoff. There is no way a HW 4000kv motor will remain as cool under stress as a Castle 2400kv motor, especially in bashing conditions. I would think these factors would weigh heavily on the average user’s buying decision.
    I am not reading the OP’s post the same way. Does occasionally taking a truck to the track mean racing or just messing around on a groomed surface?
    Occasionally is just that - occasionally. I've watched a few open runs at a few tracks. And it seems fun, yes just messing around.
    Just looking for a good setup to bash around and still be able to hang with some guys on the track when I have time.
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  6. #6
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    Gearing is key! Buy a set of pinions along with the combo and you should be very happy! If you have any doubts, then just go with the HW 3200kv at this point or just install a cheap heatsink with a fan on the 4000 or the 3200 if you feel the need... I have come a long way since I joined the Traxxas forums... a long way! Take my advice or leave it. Obviously donít gear the motor to the moon- that will destroy the rotor and cause your motor to lose magnetism real quick. I have burnt up motors and know their limits. Donít go and gear it with a 25t pinion and a 54t spur lol. Start with a lower pinion! You will get gobs of power! Youíd have to gear the 2400 higher, and/or run lipos with more cells to get the same performance as the 4000 or the 3200. That basicallly equals more $ and weight if you go with the 2400 and try it get it on par with the HWís. Thatís not what you want...
    Last edited by EvHexRC; 12-14-2018 at 04:58 AM.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by EvHexRC View Post
    Buy a Hobbywing EZ-RUN MAX-10 SCT combo with the 4000kv ezrun motor. You will get the best out of this in price, ease of programming, durability, and performance for the occasional racing. I race competitively in many classes(1/10 4WD sct outdoor, 1/8 ebuggy outdoor and 1/10 17.5 2wd buggy indoor carpet.)

    Donít buy a sidewinder. It will overheat in a 4WD sct, especially a very heavy one like the slash. Good lord, if Hobbywing ever sees what I write on these forums and how much I recommend them,theyíll be astounded! I only run Hobbywing Xerun in my race rigs. Donít bother with the Xerun because itís meant for purely racing. Not bashing and occasionally racing.

    Also, a 2400kv motor is not good for racing at all. You can get way more performance out the HW 4000 than you can the CC 2400. Oh! Remember to disable TSM when you are at the track! Itís illegal and will also just hinder the truck from doing what you want it to. Itíll basically be like a defiant child who is hangry... not good! Feel free to ask more questions! Welcome to the Traxxas forums by the way.

    -Ev
    Please dont listen to this. A 4000kv is way to high of a kv. The stock system runs hot on 3s.

    I run the sw4 with 2400kv in my slash 4x4. I can gear it to run 80mph or I can gear it down to be extremely torquey. Never gets hot. Ever. Plus I run my slash on 4s.

    If you just want a mess around system and not going to race, get a sw4. If you want to race and need to stay within battery specs, you might get a little more than 2400kv

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

  8. #8
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    Thanks for everyone's comments - keep them coming. I'm taking everything into consideration.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by jake414 View Post
    Please dont listen to this. A 4000kv is way to high of a kv. The stock system runs hot on 3s.

    I run the sw4 with 2400kv in my slash 4x4. I can gear it to run 80mph or I can gear it down to be extremely torquey. Never gets hot. Ever. Plus I run my slash on 4s.

    If you just want a mess around system and not going to race, get a sw4. If you want to race and need to stay within battery specs, you might get a little more than 2400kv

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
    Aha! You have to run a 4s to get to 80mph! That’s more $ on a battery than a 2s or a 3s! And you said yourself that you should have more kv than 2400 to occasionally race! You definitely won’t get the performance you want out of the 2400 on a 2s at the track. You will with the HW 3200 or 4000... and I run a 4400kv motor on 3s! It’s total B.S. that the 4000 runs hot on 3s. I doubt that you have bought and tested the limits of the HW 4000kv motor. I apologize if I’m wrong. Also, sidewinder esc’s are for lightweight trucks. Not a heavy short course running a heavy 4s with a heavy 2400kv motor.(compared to the HW 3200 or 4000.) the Max10sct esc can handle 4s no problem and can handle heavier rigs. Again, if you worry about heat for some reason, put on a fan cooled heat sink onto the motor. Really, the HW combo doesn’t run too hot on 3s. It’s all in how you gear it my friend.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by EvHexRC View Post
    Aha! You have to run a 4s to get to 80mph! Thatís more $ on a battery than a 2s or a 3s! And you said yourself that you should have more kv than 2400 to occasionally race! You definitely wonít get the performance you want out of the 2400 on a 2s at the track. You will with the HW 3200 or 4000... and I run a 4400kv motor on 3s! Itís total B.S. that the 4000 runs hot on 3s. I doubt that you have bought and tested the limits of the HW 4000kv motor. I apologize if Iím wrong. Also, sidewinder escís are for lightweight trucks. Not a heavy short course running a heavy 4s with a heavy 2400kv motor.(compared to the HW 3200 or 4000.) the Max10sct esc can handle 4s no problem and can handle heavier rigs. Again, if you worry about heat for some reason, put on a fan cooled heat sink onto the motor. Really, the HW combo doesnít run too hot on 3s. Itís all in how you gear it my friend.
    Oh dont worry, there is plenty of gearing left to hit 100.

    Read anywhere on here, no one recommends 3800 or 4000kv for an "upgraded" slash 4x4 motor. I ran the 3800kv smaller can motor in my "backslash" and it had a like 11t pinion on it, 3s, and a middle of the range 32p spur and it got destroyed by my friends 3s 2wd rigs. It had to be slower than 50mph. My xmaxx beat it. Not only did it run slow, it got hot.

    If ya wanna race, a non open class, get the system you reccomend. I would go with the 3200kv or a system around 3000kv.
    What I recommended was a good all around upgrade. I can run 85 on a hot summer day and stay cool. I can gear down and run paddle tires in the dunes and stay cool. I can put mt tires on it and run cool.




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    Last edited by jake414; 12-14-2018 at 06:47 PM.

  11. #11
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    Lol if you want to race, you want a sensored 4300-4600kv motor. I run a 4400. Racing obviously isnít the goal here though. At this point, Larkness should take this info and do what he/she wants with it and make his/her own decision. Iím not going to bicker back and forth here. I have stated my suggestion with knowledge, lots of testing, and experience behind it. I wouldnít suggest something that would be inferior to what could be suggested.

    -Ev
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  12. #12
    RC Champion RazorRC22's Avatar
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    I’m not the expert on this stuff, but IMO you have to figure out what size battery (2S etc) battery you want to run and what size can you want to run, and then you can pick the appropriate kV. High kV are for lower cell counts, and lower kV are for higher cell counts. If you run a larger can, you will tend to have more torque overall and run cooler.
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  13. #13
    RC Qualifier zedorda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RazorRC22 View Post
    I’m not the expert on this stuff, but IMO you have to figure out what size battery (2S etc) battery you want to run and what size can you want to run, and then you can pick the appropriate kV. High kV are for lower cell counts, and lower kV are for higher cell counts. If you run a larger can, you will tend to have more torque overall and run cooler.
    Expert or not you still have a better grasp on things then many others.

  14. #14
    RC Qualifier MAC FAB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RazorRC22 View Post
    Iím not the expert on this stuff, but IMO you have to figure out what size battery (2S etc) battery you want to run and what size can you want to run, and then you can pick the appropriate kV. High kV are for lower cell counts, and lower kV are for higher cell counts. If you run a larger can, you will tend to have more torque overall and run cooler.
    Well spoken fine sir!! May I add this, by trying to make too much power come out of the higher kv motors with 2s packs, you will either over temp your motor/esc and or destroy batteries by melting them down. This comes from the voice of experience, hot enough (by needing more current than available from a 50c 5000mah 2s lipo) that it melted the soldered connection off the terminal. Proof, my 10 lb rig with a 5700kv CC 540 can, goes +35 mph on 2s, wicked, wicked fun fast with good motor/esc temps. After a couple recharges and runs on the packs, battery meltdown and puff. Luckily, no fires for me. For kicks, the same setup on 3s saw 220 degrees on the motor, +45 mph. Too hot and way too fast to drive in the terrain I like.

    Also, something I learned from the crawler world for the "go pretty fast" stuff is that cheaper electronics will do just fine, and has worked well for me. Big amp ESC and your golden. So what is YOUR definition of speeding around? You do realize you will have opend Pandora's $$$$$$ box going there, right? I have the 2400kv CC (see pic below), non-sensored on 3s, Mamba SCT. Mine is older, NOS in a way, $199 for the set ages ago. Puts out power that breaks axles.... making you upgrade something else that is the next weekest link, another $100 or so oughta fix that. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat.

    Be sure to tell Pandora hi for me when you open the box and peek in to see her face, we are on a first name basis.

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  15. #15
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    Y’all act as if I know nothing of what I speak. 5700kv and that size can will heat up like a fat kid playing tag at recess. The 2400 needs more voltage to get up with the motors I suggested. You all have said it yourselves.

    Here I am on this thread again trying to “enforce” my opinion backed by experience... When will I learn to give up? Who knows. I’m not one to give up.
    Last edited by EvHexRC; 12-19-2018 at 11:40 PM. Reason: Darn autocorrect hurts more than it helps...
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  16. #16
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    Sidewinder 4 and 3 are underpowered for a slash 4x4. Sidewinder 8th is pure awesomeness and 6s craziness but itís probably out of your price range.

  17. #17
    RC Qualifier MAC FAB's Avatar
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    The 2400kv needs 3s, yes. Geared down for regular bashing, I easily get 1/2 hr of drive time, no motor or esc temps to worry about. Gear her up and it easily eats the 4000kv for lunch on speed runs. This brings it back to Razor's post, what do you want to run for batteries, choose your power from that. Don't make it where you have to rely on 100,000 mah 100c batteries to make your truck run. $100 a battery vs cheap 5000 mah 20c 3s power if you're starting from scratch, so to speak, not having a bunch of 2s units already. Oh yeah, the fat kid (my 10 lb car) had no problems running in the upper 20s all day long, cool as a whistle at recess with the 540 can 5700kv

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larkness View Post
    Less than a week of ownership and I want to upgrade to a brushless (yeah I should've gone brushless to begin with but that's another story). Mamba X is out of the price point. Hobbywing seems nice. But I'm really liking the Sidewinder 4 with 1415-2400Kv sensored motor. Anyone have any experience with this set up? Mainly want to speed around and take it to the track on occasion.
    Or does anyone else have an opinion on a good upgrade to brushless systems.
    Thanks in advance...

    Please watch the expressions you use here. Thanks! ksb51rl
    Try Jenny's Rc online. They tear down brand new kits and part them out. You can get a Velineon system for way less money and still brand new.

    Bash, crash, repair, repeat...

  19. #19
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    Iím no expert either and know nothing about racing.... I have 3 rules for myself when it comes to RC:

    1. Have fun (most important rule )
    2. Do not spend too much money on a single rig (6s is fun but most likely will break your rig each and every run)
    3. Do not cheapout on batteries and ESCís (Iíve learned that the hard way )

    So for your question: start with deciding on batteries!

    I decided to run 3s in my Slash 4x4. Because of that decision my ESC needed to be 3s capable at a minimum so I bought a Hobbywing WP-SC8. Waterproof, 4s capable, high amps (=power ) and reputable brand.

    Because of the high amps I also needed batteries that could provide enough ďjuiceĒ with enough runtime (=high capacity) while still fitting in the battery tray. So I bought 2 3s 6200 mAh 65c batteries (=400 amps continuous)

    Next choice was motor. For bashing around I didnít need a sensored motor. I decided to buy a noname 4068 2650kv brushless motor because according to the specs it could provide 2200 watt (=power=fun ). Being only $ 25,- I decided to take the ďnoname brand riskĒ.... and havenít regretted it since .

    The Hobbywing WP-SC8 noname motor combo cost me $ 85,-..... not to shabby for the fun Iím having. (40mm diameter can is the max, for a 42mm diameter can like a 4274 motor you have to Dremel the chassis if I remember correctly)

    If you decide to run 2s my choice would be the Hobbywing Max10 SCT with Hobbywing 4000kv 3660SL G2 motor. Very fun combo which I run in my Axial SMT10. And no need to worry about temps because this combo has thermal protection . This combo will cost more however



    Quote Originally Posted by jake414 View Post
    I run the sw4 with 2400kv in my slash 4x4. I can gear it to run 80mph or I can gear it down to be extremely torquey. Never gets hot. Ever. Plus I run my slash on 4s.
    P.S. Castle Creations Sidewinder 4 is 3s max


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  20. #20
    RC Champion Dcuda69's Avatar
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    Chris NL gets it. If you're just bashing around there are tons of affordable options. If you're gonna race serious spend some money. I don't think there's a combo that'll be great at both. My progression through motors:



    Left to right: Traxxas 3500kv, Traxxas(Castle) Funny Car 2400kv(3670 can), Kershaw Designs 2700kv(3674 can), RC Gearshop 2150kv(4074 can)

    The 3500 is great in light or 2wd stuff or kept on 2s, the 2400 is ok just needs 3s and some gear, that Kershaw 2700 blows the 2400 away but needs 3s min.and some gear,crazy fast on 4s,no longer available, the 2150 is a torque monster,cool as can be on 3s,needs gear! and stays cool on 4s. I didn't pay more than $40 for any of them. I can run any of them with my $60 HW WP SC8. So for about $200 I have 3 different motors to choose from. I have 2 2s packs and a 3s pack, so I can run 2s,3s or series my 2s for 4s.

    Shop around..there's fun stuff out there that doesn't cost a fortune. Have fun!!
    Slash 4x4 Ult 2150kv
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