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  1. #1
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    Best motor upgrade for Rustler 4x4

    Guys, just thought I would run this by the experts
    This is not a Velineon x Castle thread, I just wanted to ask what you guys think is a better fit for my situation.

    So I should have done a better job researching before getting my Rustler 4x4. I had several Nitro cars when was younger and decided to get back at it. For sure would be better off with the VXL but it's done now.

    I felt like my stock Rustler 4x4 is lacking a little power for my driving style on short tracks. I'm thinking in going either with the Velinion + VXL upgrade or the Castle 1410 3800kv + SW4. What would be the best upgrade if I keep the stock gearing for now? I don't want to overwhelm the current spec with a crazy motor... I'm going to upgrade steering links, driveshafts, turnbuckles slowly along the way, so now it would be motor and ESC only.

    I'm a fan of standard Traxxas stuff, but bot oposed to castle either. Not sure what is the best fit on a 4x4 electric.

    Thanks all in advance

  2. #2
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    The vxl 3s system is plenty adequate for driving on short tracks. It has good acceleration and moderate top speed. However, if you are going to bash hard I would suggest the castle setup. Castle overall is quite a bit more powerful and faster than traxxas electronics. But traxxas will not help you if you break your castle stuff. For track driving, get the vxl 3s. For track driving and other stuff and speed runs taking it to the park and skatepark on trails get the castle.

  3. #3
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    Been running castle setups since I put one in my RC18 about 10 years ago. I have at least 3 setups for the RC18, a sidewinder 2 in my RC10 worlds re-release and one of their crawler setups in my wraith.

    Haven't had issues and the castle tuner is pretty fun to play with. You can also use it to turn the power down a bit if someone wants to try out the car. Helps prevent people from handing you back your broken RC.

  4. #4
    RC Qualifier Panther6834's Avatar
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    I've been looking into replacing my Rusty's ESC & motor, so I've been reading quite a bit. While I haven't made any final decision, I have learned/ discovered one fairly important thing - bashers primarily prefer Cattle, while racers primarily prefer Tekin. As I'm primarily interested in racing, it looks like I'll be joining "camp Tekin". Now, it's just a matter of determining the best ESC/motor combo for my Rusty 4x4 VXL when running 2S batteries (what most tracks allow).
    Last edited by Panther6834; 01-19-2019 at 02:37 AM.
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  5. #5
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    I would not over look the Hobbywing options either. Lots of folks running them in bashing and racing applications
    Slash 4x4 Ult 2150kv
    Rustler vxl
    Ford GT vxl

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dcuda69 View Post
    I would not over look the Hobbywing options either. Lots of folks running them in bashing and racing applications
    I'll check the Hobbywing options out...although, at this point, I've all but eliminated Castle. Their motors are great for super-speed, and if you want to break 100mph, Castle motors can do it. But, for a stadium track, high-speed turns could be...uh..."interesting"...lol

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  7. #7
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    I just installed the hobbywing quicrun 8bl150 and the hobbywing 4268 2600kv, and it has torque for days. I have 20/50 gearing. It's geared for 40-45 mph. For bashing i could not be any happier with it. I can run for 30 minutes in 90 degree south louisiana heat and it will be around 150-160.

  8. #8
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    Sidewinder 8th with 2200kv motor for extreme power
    Mamba X with 2400k motor for also extreme power
    Hobbywing max-10 SCT with the motor it comes with
    MAMBA MONSTER 2 WITH THE TRAXXAS 540XL MARINE MOTOR IF YOU WANT IDK

  9. #9
    RC Qualifier Panther6834's Avatar
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    I've definitely decided on Tekin, and, for the ESC, I've decided on the RX8 (only because, according to Tekin's online info, the next model down (RSX Pro) doesn't appear to be capable of handling a 1:10 4WD short course truck).

    So...the next part of my "quest" is determining the best/proper motor. My primary considerations are the Pro4 & Pro4 HD. The only problem is in deciding which, and which output capability (3300kV, 4000kV, & 4600kV with the Pro4...or 3500kV & 4200kV with the Pro4 HD). For racing, I'll be limited to 2S batteries...but, away from the track, I might want to occasionally (although VERY rarely) use a 3S pack.

    While the Gen3 & T8i are also possibilities, they are "VERY minor possibilities", as I'm thinking they are not "appropriate" for a 1:10 4WD stadium truck like the Rustler 4x4 VXL. Regarding the Gen3, I am completely uncertain as to which specific model (or models) would even be considered, due to the models being based on 'turns', as opposed to 'kV'. As for the T8i, while the motor's dimensions would easily fit into the chassis, I'm thinking that the largest size (2700kV) might be under-powered for the 4x4 Rusty.

    Obviously, I'm leaning VERY strongly towards the Pro4 & Pro4 HD, as these appear to be "correct" motors for a 1:10 4WD like the Rustler 4x4 VXL. But, again, the question would be whether the the Pro4, or Pro4 HD is the better/smarter choice...and whether to go with the Pro4 (and 3300kV, 4000kV or 4600kV version), or the Pro4 HD (and 3500kV or 4200kV version). Obviously, higher kV rating typically means faster top speed, while lower kV rating typically means greater torque.
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  10. #10
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    I would check out thercnetwork on YouTube for all that Tekin stuff.

    Not sure about everyone else here, but that Tekin stuff is crazy expensive, I’ll pass! Doesn’t mean I don’t blame you for choosing them though!

  11. #11
    RC Qualifier Panther6834's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peeeenuuutt View Post
    I would check out thercnetwork on YouTube for all that Tekin stuff.

    Not sure about everyone else here, but that Tekin stuff is crazy expensive, Iíll pass! Doesnít mean I donít blame you for choosing them though!
    As I mentioned in another thread, coat is less important to me than quality, customer service, compatibility, power/speed, durability, etc. In other words, "the best bang for the buck, with much greater importance being placed on the 'best bang' part". On a 0-10 scale, where "best bang" is '10', and "buck" is '0', is place my interest around a '7'... Maybe even an '8'.

    No, I'm not "rich"...not even close...but, I don't mind spending a little extra for something better. Put another way, I'd rather spend $150 on a pair of athletic shoes that will last 2-3 years, compared to a pair of $40-50 shoes that I'd be lucky to have last 6 months (and, for the record...not that it matters here...I have several pair that I rotate, to make them last considerably longer).

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  12. #12
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    I chose to replace my stock esc/ motor with castle mmx and 2650kv. I love it. Now I can drive truck geared for 60mph on any surface without worry of it getting hot like it was worth the stock stuff.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Panther6834 View Post
    As I mentioned in another thread, coat is less important to me than quality, customer service, compatibility, power/speed, durability, etc. In other words, "the best bang for the buck, with much greater importance being placed on the 'best bang' part". On a 0-10 scale, where "best bang" is '10', and "buck" is '0', is place my interest around a '7'... Maybe even an '8'.

    No, I'm not "rich"...not even close...but, I don't mind spending a little extra for something better. Put another way, I'd rather spend $150 on a pair of athletic shoes that will last 2-3 years, compared to a pair of $40-50 shoes that I'd be lucky to have last 6 months (and, for the record...not that it matters here...I have several pair that I rotate, to make them last considerably longer).

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    You are making castle seem like a disposable brand.
    This makes me very sad .

  14. #14
    RC Qualifier Panther6834's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peeeenuuutt View Post
    You are making castle seem like a disposable brand.
    This makes me very sad .
    Honestly, not my intention at all. As I said previously, if you're into bashing, then Castle is the one to go with, and, when it comes to building up something different that's purely for "playtime", Castle is, in all likelihood, what I'll go with. However, as I'm building up my Rusty for track/race use, Tekin is who I'm going with. They're both excellent brands, with excellent customer service, but they each gear themselves more towards specif uses, each with a slight "crossover" into the other. Since anything over 2S battery use can't be used on the local track, I REALLY can't wait to get an E-Revo, and build it up with a Castle ESC & motor.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Panther6834 View Post
    Honestly, not my intention at all. As I said previously, if you're into bashing, then Castle is the one to go with, and, when it comes to building up something different that's purely for "playtime", Castle is, in all likelihood, what I'll go with. However, as I'm building up my Rusty for track/race use, Tekin is who I'm going with. They're both excellent brands, with excellent customer service, but they each gear themselves more towards specif uses, each with a slight "crossover" into the other. Since anything over 2S battery use can't be used on the local track, I REALLY can't wait to get an E-Revo, and build it up with a Castle ESC & motor.
    I have treat for you. Will update in a few days via a thread.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peeeenuuutt View Post
    I have treat for you. Will update in a few days via a thread.
    Will be awaiting it. In the meantime, will be extremely busy with work through next Sunday. Have a LOT of chauffeuring to do for next weekend's NHL All-Star game.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Panther6834 View Post
    Honestly, not my intention at all. As I said previously, if you're into bashing, then Castle is the one to go with, and, when it comes to building up something different that's purely for "playtime", Castle is, in all likelihood, what I'll go with. However, as I'm building up my Rusty for track/race use, Tekin is who I'm going with. They're both excellent brands, with excellent customer service, but they each gear themselves more towards specif uses, each with a slight "crossover" into the other. Since anything over 2S battery use can't be used on the local track, I REALLY can't wait to get an E-Revo, and build it up with a Castle ESC & motor.
    What speed are you shooting for with the Tekin on 2s? I'm curious about the advantges to the stock system other than adjustability. I am also only planning to run 2s almost exclusively, and I'm really enjoying the stock VXL on 2s right now. Thought in going to 14t pinion to reduce the torque a bit, it's got plenty of power for track use. Curious to see the temperatures on 2s and bigger pinion on the VXL, keep reading that the it does not like 3s but haven't heard anything about 2s and gearing up

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by m3rcfh View Post
    What speed are you shooting for with the Tekin on 2s? I'm curious about the advantges to the stock system other than adjustability. I am also only planning to run 2s almost exclusively, and I'm really enjoying the stock VXL on 2s right now. Thought in going to 14t pinion to reduce the torque a bit, it's got plenty of power for track use. Curious to see the temperatures on 2s and bigger pinion on the VXL, keep reading that the it does not like 3s but haven't heard anything about 2s and gearing up
    The 3500 is a great motor, that’s not what you need to be worrying about. It’s that vxl-3s esc. That’s the weak link.

  19. #19
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    But the VXL 3s ESC is a weak link when combined with 3s, right? Or is it also not good on 2s?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by m3rcfh View Post
    But the VXL 3s ESC is a weak link when combined with 3s, right? Or is it also not good on 2s?
    Nah it’s okaaaay on 2s. Definitely not good on 3s. At all. I ran that thing at 150 constantly LoL... never supposed to get an esc above 130...

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peeeenuuutt View Post
    Nah it’s okaaaay on 2s. Definitely not good on 3s. At all. I ran that thing at 150 constantly LoL... never supposed to get an esc above 130...
    Next time I'm out on a track I'm going to take temp measurements from esc and motor on 2s with the stock 11t pinion and with the 17t pinion. Just for learning purposes. I would do it at my backyard but we are getting -2F right now, doubt that motor is going to get hot lol. I thought in getting an ESC fan also if temps are close to 130F.

    So you think that a different ESC is going to help running higher gears on the 3500kv on 2s, without getting as hot? And all that with the benefit of running a 3s when feel like it... that' definitely something to think about when that ESC goes out.

  22. #22
    RC Qualifier Panther6834's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by m3rcfh View Post
    What speed are you shooting for with the Tekin on 2s?
    I'm not trying to hit any particular speed...I'm not "drag-racing" this thing. I'm working on building it up for track racing (have a nice indoor almost-stadium-but-not-quite dirt track, with multiple jumps, at a local shop). As has been pointed out, the motor is fine, but the ESC isn't exactly the greatest. Imagine taking an engine from Subaru STi, but using the ECU from a Prius to manage the engine. Both are great in their own right...but, together, you've better off walking. So, it's smart to Upgrade the ESC.

    At the same time, if you've decided to upgrade to a better ESC, wouldn't you also want to mate it with a compatible motor? Using another automotive analogy, if you install a Chevy/Ford small-block V8 in your Toyota 4x4, are you going to connect it to the Toyota transmission? Sure, you could...but, would it be wise? Obviously, you're much better off installing a transmission designed to work with that engine. Thus, if you've going to upgrade to a better ESC, you should also upgrade to a motor designed to best work with that particular ESC...and, in almost all cases, that means getting the same brand for ESC & motor.

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  23. #23
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    You cannot go wrong with castle. Go for like a 2400 kv motor. You can always gear it higher. For track use gear it really high. For bashing, not as high though. Careful about stripping stock spur. Very easy to strip, if you do not have a tight enough pinion. Also make sure it is meshed correctly, because with castle 2400 kv torque, you can strip the spur gear, even if the pinion is mounted properly, and it is meshed well.

  24. #24
    RC Qualifier Panther6834's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luke s View Post
    You cannot go wrong with castle. Go for like a 2400 kv motor. You can always gear it higher. For track use gear it really high. For bashing, not as high though. Careful about stripping stock spur. Very easy to strip, if you do not have a tight enough pinion. Also make sure it is meshed correctly, because with castle 2400 kv torque, you can strip the spur gear, even if the pinion is mounted properly, and it is meshed well.
    Originally, I was seriously considering Castle...but, upon further research, I've settled on Tekin (RX8 ESC, & Pro4 or Pro4 HD motor. For bashing, Castle would be my choice (and, in a cutie build-up, it will be). Regarding the spur gear, I'm looking into Delrin gears...the still plastic, albeit harder, and much stronger, than the nylon typically used. Additionally, they can withstand FAR greater temperatures than nylon, and won't get soft. Lastly, unlike being molded like nylon, Delrin is machined like steel. Combine a Delrin spur gear with a machined steel pinion gear, and you have a great combination...it's just a matter of selecting the right tooth counts.

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  25. #25
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    You’d be surprised how hot motors can get in the cold... especially if snowing... *ehem my e revo may or may not have passed 210 in its last outing because of the snow making it heavy*

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peeeenuuutt View Post
    You’d be surprised how hot motors can get in the cold... especially if snowing... *ehem my e revo may or may not have passed 210 in its last outing because of the snow making it heavy*
    That makes total sense, I was surprised by how much snow builds up inside the chassis on top of the electronics... I took the car inside and by the time I pulled my temp gun, the ice had already cooled everything down.
    Have to look for some sort of mud flaps to keep some of the snow out, felt bad with all that snow covering the components

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luke s View Post
    You cannot go wrong with castle. Go for like a 2400 kv motor. You can always gear it higher. For track use gear it really high. For bashing, not as high though. Careful about stripping stock spur. Very easy to strip, if you do not have a tight enough pinion. Also make sure it is meshed correctly, because with castle 2400 kv torque, you can strip the spur gear, even if the pinion is mounted properly, and it is meshed well.
    My understanding was that the lower kv motors shine when combined with 3s. As I'm only planning 2s for now, the 2400kv won't do very much for me on the tracks - guys with more experience please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. Also I'm used to hear that you want more torque on the short tracks, thus lower gearing (and not top speed).

    I read somewhere else that you got the 4600kv motor on your Rustler, how do you like that motor? I'm just curious why you recommended me something different than your setup

  28. #28
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    If you’re sticking to 2s the velineon 3500 is your best bet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peeeenuuutt View Post
    If you’re sticking to 2s the velineon 3500 is your best bet.
    Do you think the velineon can handle the optional 17t pinion on 2s without overheating?

    I thought in getting a Hobbywing 10MAX SCT when the time comes, and keep the velineon until it dies.
    I'm might try a 3s here and there for the S&Gs, but don't plan in running it constantly (especially because the track I go to only allows 2s)

  30. #30
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    So, my decision was finally made. Just ordered the Tekin RX8 ESC, and Pro4 4000kV motor. Although I was considering the Pro4 HD, it's not ROAR-approved. Of course, with upgraded ESC & motor, it was also best up upgrade the pinion & spur gears, all of which are coming from Robinson Racing. Although 32 Pitch & 0.8 MOD are almost identical, I figured it might be best to truly run 'identical'...so, since the spur only comes in 0.8 MOD, figured the pinion gear should also be 0.8 MOD. To "play around" with things a bit, decided to get both 54T & 50T spur gears, plus 12T, 14T & 16T pinion gears. All of this on 2S batteries should be fine, without worrying about any ESC or motor overheating issues, which brings up my next question.....

    For the Tekin Pro4 motors, what would the best heatsink and/or fan be?
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  31. #31
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    [QUOTE=m3rcfh;6483470]Do you think the velineon can handle the optional 17t pinion on 2s without overheating?

    I think 2s on 17t pinion will be ok. If you do not want all the wheelies and sensitive air control that you get with 3s, I suggest still buying a 3s, and using a loose slipper clutch. Your motor will probably keep about the same temperature.

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    People already hate me, and they will hate me even more, but I personally love my integy double cooling fan + heatsink. It works very well, the fans are powerful, and it keeps the motor temps down. If you land from big jumps upside down, or try self right, it will come off about 10% of the time though. Currently I am running a redcat 3300 kv motor, which came in my caldera sc 10e in my rustler. I am using a 13t pinion. This motor, gearing and fan setup on 3s barely even gets warm. I mean like slightly above room temperature. Doing speed runs on 3s with 13t pinion it stays colder than the stock motor on 2s stock gearing. I personally love this combo. Only downside is the fan, pinion, and motor together will cost almost $120. You might get lucky and find the motor for 80 used. Anyways, integy is an incosistent brand, so that does not mean that the fan you get will work like mine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Luke s View Post
    People already hate me, and they will hate me even more, but I personally love my integy double cooling fan + heatsink. It works very well, the fans are powerful, and it keeps the motor temps down. If you land from big jumps upside down, or try self right, it will come off about 10% of the time though. Currently I am running a redcat 3300 kv motor, which came in my caldera sc 10e in my rustler. I am using a 13t pinion. This motor, gearing and fan setup on 3s barely even gets warm. I mean like slightly above room temperature. Doing speed runs on 3s with 13t pinion it stays colder than the stock motor on 2s stock gearing. I personally love this combo. Only downside is the fan, pinion, and motor together will cost almost $120. You might get lucky and find the motor for 80 used. Anyways, integy is an incosistent brand, so that does not mean that the fan you get will work like mine.
    Never buy used motors
    What do you mean ďcome offĒ.. if it is what Iím thinking, thereís probably a solution.
    But yes, room temp in a short 10th scale motor is impressive, and itís a shame you canít buy that motor cheap, because for $120 you could get a whole 10th scale esc and motor combo.
    Hereís a 3300kv motor thatíll plug right in. https://www.google.com/shopping/prod...VeuABkQgTYI2AQ
    I wonder if itís any good.

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    I highly do not recommend dynamite. I have a dynamite tazer system. It gets extremely hot, on 9t pinion 54t spur, top speed on 2s is comparable to a latrax prerunner in my pede 4x4, and there is barely enough torque to pull wheelies. If you stop all the way on a 100% fresh battery on 9t pinion and soft tires you will pull wheelies 50% of the time. This motor seems extremely similar to the one I have. I might be wrong. But this is the motor that comes stock in the losi tenacity mt. I have seen many reviewers say that the motor gets hot. So I doubt it is a fluke. Back to the redcat motor. Today I tried to make it overheat. Not even cloes. Got to 128 Degrees F after a solid 15-20 minutes of non stop speed runs on fwd. It has more torque, and slightly faster top speed. I see how it would be absurd to buy a plain motor for $120, but I love that motor, and would pay lots of money to fix it if it broke. I would personally say it is worth 80-90 dollars.

  35. #35
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    Did a quick "add-on" to y order before shipping. Got the Tekin HotWire 3.0, plus the Castle CC Blower Fan.

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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luke s View Post
    I highly do not recommend dynamite. I have a dynamite tazer system. It gets extremely hot, on 9t pinion 54t spur, top speed on 2s is comparable to a latrax prerunner in my pede 4x4, and there is barely enough torque to pull wheelies. If you stop all the way on a 100% fresh battery on 9t pinion and soft tires you will pull wheelies 50% of the time. This motor seems extremely similar to the one I have. I might be wrong. But this is the motor that comes stock in the losi tenacity mt. I have seen many reviewers say that the motor gets hot. So I doubt it is a fluke. Back to the redcat motor. Today I tried to make it overheat. Not even cloes. Got to 128 Degrees F after a solid 15-20 minutes of non stop speed runs on fwd. It has more torque, and slightly faster top speed. I see how it would be absurd to buy a plain motor for $120, but I love that motor, and would pay lots of money to fix it if it broke. I would personally say it is worth 80-90 dollars.
    See? Now you’re talking! Good thing you had me on that one, I was actually gonna pick one up. I’ll pass now.

  37. #37
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    Tekin RX8 Gen3 ESC, Pro4 Gen3 motor, & Hotwire 3.0 received...now just waiting on the new soldering station & Hitec servo. While I'm waiting, gonna "play around" with the programming. Due to an EXTREMELY heavy work schedule thru the first half of February, I probably won't have the time to install until after President's Day. I'll just stare at them until then.

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