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Thread: New TSM Bug?

  1. #1
    RC Qualifier Flux Capacitor's Avatar
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    New TSM Bug?/Video Included!

    Application Version 6.0.3.9972

    Application Build Date Feb. 1 2019 20:03:46


    TQi Receiver 2.0.73
    TQi Transmitter 6.0.30
    TSM Receiver 6.0.60

    I have a short video that demonstrates that TSM will not work unless I power the ESC on twice. In other words, I have to power the vehicle ESC down and power it back up. I never had to do this before and it is the same with my other vehicles.



    We shouldn't have to cycle the ESC to get TSM to work properly. It use to work the moment I powered the vehicle up the first time.

    Anyone else notice this after the latest TSM update?
    Last edited by Flux Capacitor; 02-24-2019 at 06:29 PM. Reason: video quality
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    RC Turnbuckle Jr. ReglarGuy's Avatar
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    Sometimes Traxxas has problems when they update their application, and sometimes Traxxas has problems with their applications when iPhone/Android updates their devices. I think that's what you got going on here. I suggest calling Traxxas and telling them about it. If this is indeed what is going on here, you are at the mercy of waiting for Traxxas to fix their application.

    I had this happen to me once when the Traxxas telemetry first came out. The only way to beat this (from happening in the future) is to buy a dedicated iPod, get everything working, turn off the Wi-Fi on your device, and don't update. That's what I did, and I haven't had a problem with my telemetry since.

    The last time when I did update: I updated my iPad (not my iPod), updated my spare transmitter/receiver (not the ones I normally use), and then seen if everthing was working right. If so, I'd update my iPod and my vehicles. If not, I didn't update anything untill Traxxas had a chance to fix their application. What your going to have to do now though, is to call Traxxas and see what they can do for you.

    P.S. My grammar might not be to great here, but I wanted to get back to you quickly. Now, I got to go get ready for work. Good luck!
    Last edited by ReglarGuy; 02-26-2019 at 04:56 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReglarGuy View Post
    Sometimes Traxxas has problems when they update their application, and sometimes Traxxas has problems with their applications when iPhone/Android updates their devices. I think that's what you got going on here. I suggest calling Traxxas and telling them about it. If this is indeed what is going on here, you are at the mercy of waiting for Traxxas to fix their application.
    I think I figured it out. I have a Tx that has more than one model stored in memory and when using the same Tx for different models, it has something to do with switching between them. However, once I kept using the same model with the same Tx, it hasn't done it again.

    Quote Originally Posted by ReglarGuy View Post
    I had this happen to me once when the Traxxas telemetry first came out. The only way to beat this (from happening in the future) is to buy a dedicated iPod, get everything working, turn off the Wi-Fi on your device, and don't update. That's what I did, and I haven't had a problem with my telemetry since.
    That isn't a bad idea at all; although I'm not using a telemetry expander in any of my models at the moment, I still like your approach.

    Quote Originally Posted by ReglarGuy View Post
    The last time when I did update: I updated my iPad (not my iPod), updated my spare transmitter/receiver (not the ones I normally use), and then seen if everthing was working right. If so, I'd update my iPod and my vehicles. If not, I didn't update anything untill Traxxas had a chance to fix their application. What your going to have to do now though, is to call Traxxas and see what they can do for you.
    This is exactly why I didn't like the approach Traxxas was taking as far as the Bluetooth Module.

    Whenever you have software updates to a piece of hardware, you are at the mercy of whatever company is responsible for maintaining a working platform. Just wait, it is going to get better (yeah, I'm holding my breath on that one) because Traxxas is really going to screw up one day and send out an update that fries all our electronics and claim that it was our devices fault for updating their platform first while Traxxas plays catch-up as usual.

    I predict that it will be Traxxas' biggest flop and possibly their demise unless they hire a private digitizing company that can decipher platform updates to all the possible devices that support Bluetooth that use their source code to update their products to begin with.

    It will be a sad occasion, because it is a matter of when, not if; and suddenly everyone with a Traxxas product will wake up to having a bricked piece of plastic and metal that can only be pushed by hand.

    Quote Originally Posted by ReglarGuy View Post
    P.S. My grammar might not be to great here, but I wanted to get back to you quickly. Now, I got to go get ready for work. Good luck!
    I appreciate you taking the time to reply considering your hectic schedule.
    Last edited by Flux Capacitor; 02-26-2019 at 07:56 AM. Reason: Additional Information
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    All 4 of my rc's do the exact same as yours in the video but what I found strange is when I turn the TSM off and go through the same procedures the first is no movement then I turn the esc off and then on the TSM still works even with the dial turned off, I never noticed any of this before.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rain Dawg View Post
    All 4 of my rc's do the exact same as yours in the video but what I found strange is when I turn the TSM off and go through the same procedures the first is no movement then I turn the esc off and then on the TSM still works even with the dial turned off, I never noticed any of this before.
    Yes, I think I spoke too soon because the problem is still persistent even if I use one Tx per vehicle. I thought I had it figured out, but I think there is something not right with the latest update.

    I also noticed on the prior TSM update, that the vehicle would out of no where just chalk the wheels hard left when you were trying to go straight or turn right. That is what I thought this current update was going to fix; but it turns out they fixed the glitch in TSM, however they developed another problem while trying to fix the current one.

    I don't understand why they have to keep updating a TSM Receiver once it works. About three months ago, it all worked fine because I didn't care if TSM was on or off.............but now, you don't know if it is ever on or off unless you physically alter the vehicles axis like I was doing in the video.

    They need to fix that!
    Last edited by Flux Capacitor; 02-26-2019 at 02:07 PM.
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  6. #6
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. ReglarGuy's Avatar
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    I don't know if this helps or not, but I don't use one Transmitter for all my vehicles. Each one of my vehicles has their own Transmitter. I figure, Traxxas gives them to you with each vehicle you get, so why complicate things. I marked each one with a label to what vehicle it goes to. As a rule, I generally only take two vehicles at a time, so (for me) it's no big deal for me to take one more transmitter.

    I also, have a complete mock-up that I keep for trouble shooting purposes: iPod, Transmitter, Receiver, Servos, ESC, Expander, sensors, and GPS. That way I can easily/quickly get to the bottom of a problem without having to take apart a perfectly working vehicle to swop parts. My mock-up also comes in handy for spare parts, that way I can get back to playing without having to wait for back orders.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReglarGuy View Post
    I don't know if this helps or not, but I don't use one Transmitter for all my vehicles. Each one of my vehicles has their own Transmitter. I figure, Traxxas gives them to you with each vehicle you get, so why complicate things. I marked each one with a label to what vehicle it goes to. As a rule, I generally only take two vehicles at a time, so (for me) it's no big deal for me to take one more transmitter.

    I also, have a complete mock-up that I keep for trouble shooting purposes: iPod, Transmitter, Receiver, Servos, ESC, Expander, sensors, and GPS. That way I can easily/quickly get to the bottom of a problem without having to take apart a perfectly working vehicle to swop parts. My mock-up also comes in handy for spare parts, that way I can get back to playing without having to wait for back orders.
    I don't know if it helps or not either, but I was thinking about a setting I saw in the Traxxas Link App. I remember seeing a setting in "Support"> "Preferences" and it had something to do with overriding transmitter settings. Now when I clicked the help button in the App, the "Override Transmitter Settings" is the only one that didn't have an explanation definition like the other settings had.

    Now I know that "Override Transmitter Settings" sounds pretty straight forward and self explanatory, but how does it work and does it work only when the App is open on your device and you are linked to the Tx via Bluetooth or do the linked settings remain active after closing the App? Should it be toggled on or off? Does it reset pre-programmed settings you had in the Tx prior to toggling it on. Does it restore settings if it is toggled off?

    Those are questions that I think need addressed.
    Last edited by Flux Capacitor; 02-26-2019 at 02:47 PM.
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    RC Turnbuckle Jr. ReglarGuy's Avatar
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    I start out with my Xmitter set to the Traxxas "Default" settings. Then I use the "Override Transmitter Settings" on my iPod, because if for some reason I don't use my iPod, my Xmitter is set to what I had my iPod set to. If I didn't use "Override Transmitter Settings" my Xmitter would revert back to "Default."
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReglarGuy View Post
    I start out with my Xmitter set to the Traxxas "Default" settings. Then I use the "Override Transmitter Settings" on my iPod, because if for some reason I don't use my iPod, my Xmitter is set to what I had my iPod set to. If I didn't use "Override Transmitter Settings" my Xmitter would revert back to "Default."
    O.K. - My question is when you use the "Override Transmitter Settings" do you leave the iPod connected the whole time you are using the vehicle? If not, then what is the point of overriding the Tx settings? My understanding is that if a person is going to use "Override Transmitter Settings", the common sense thing would be to leave the device connected via Bluetooth or else I'm assuming the Tx will revert to its currently set status.

    That is another reason I don't like the Bluetooth feature, because it is one more thing that obviously needs connected at all times in order to override current TX settings.

    The only useful thing I have got out of this Bluetooth ordeal since they started it, is that if you hook a steering servo up and it needs reversed in order to have the correct orientation for the steering, it is nice not having to remember the menu>set combination on the Tx - just pull up the App>Garage>Channel Setup>Steering - Done!

    Other than that, I personally feel they need to go back to formula and rewrite the whole code and give us an App that has less flaws. As of now, I count more problems with the App than solutions and it is getting kind of irritating not knowing what my vehicle is or isn't going to do the next time I power it up.

    In other words, we shouldn't have to set up a whole mock-up platform to beta-test something that should already work before it is released. Traxxas is starting to put the carriage before the horse and it is catching up with them.
    Last edited by Flux Capacitor; 02-28-2019 at 04:48 PM.
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  10. #10
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. ReglarGuy's Avatar
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    If I have my Xmitter set a certain way, then if I connect my iPod to it with "Override Transmitter Settings" on, then change my settings using my iPod, when I disconnect my iPod from my Xmitter, those iPod settings will still stay with my Xmitter.

    If then (iPod disconnected), I was to change my Xmitter settings, when I re-connected my iPod back up to my Xmitter (with the app activated of course), my Xmitter would go back to what ever I have setup on my iPod. With "Override Transmitter Settings" on, my iPod will always trump whatever my self standing Xmitter is previously set to.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flux Capacitor View Post
    In other words, we shouldn't have to set up a whole mock-up platform to beta-test something that should already work before it is released. Traxxas is starting to put the carriage before the horse and it is catching up with them.
    P.S. The reason why I have a mockup platform is to be able to trouble shoot any and all RC problems quickly, not just telemetry problems...all problems. I also use it for spare parts when a needed part is on backorder.
    Last edited by ReglarGuy; 03-01-2019 at 04:54 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReglarGuy View Post
    If I have my Xmitter set a certain way, then if I connect my iPod to it with "Override Transmitter Settings" on, then change my settings using my iPod, when I disconnect my iPod from my Xmitter, those iPod settings will still stay with my Xmitter.
    I haven't fully tested if my Tx settings stay the same after disconnecting the App. I guess it would depend on what function I have assigned to the multi-function knob to be able to narrow it down more accurately and test it. What I don't understand, is that there is a "Braking%" setting in the "Drive Effects" menu and my Braking percentage was set in my ESC via Castle Link.

    Which setting is trumping which setting in that case? In other words, my Castle Link setting in the ESC tells the vehicle what percentage of braking to have unless the App is somehow overriding my ESC settings in Castle Link.

    Do you know if the App is capable of overriding hard-set ESC settings in aftermarket ESC's? If it is capable of doing that, then it would explain a lot of the troubles I have been experiencing lately on aftermarket ESC's.

    Quote Originally Posted by ReglarGuy View Post
    If then (iPod disconnected), I was to change my Xmitter settings, when I re-connected my iPod back up to my Xmitter (with the app activated of course), my Xmitter would go back to what ever I have setup on my iPod. With "Override Transmitter Settings" on, my iPod will always trump whatever my self standing Xmitter is previously set to.
    I understand that completly; however, I need to know what the extent of the Apps power is in overriding hard-set ESC settings in aftermarket ESC's.

    Quote Originally Posted by ReglarGuy View Post
    P.S. The reason why I have a mockup platform is to be able to trouble shoot any and all RC problems quickly, not just telemetry problems...all problems. I also use it for spare parts when a needed part is on backorder.
    I definitely have a few Rx's and Tx's lying around that are going to be put through some tests, as I have not yet isolated a pattern to the odd behavior displayed after this latest update.
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    Traxxas released an updated Application Version:

    6.0.4.10052

    Application Build Date: Feb 26 2019 10:41:26

    I didn't get the update until March 1st, 10:00p.m.


    Funny thing is, the update was listed as an 8S ESC firmware update that was addressed. I don't know if any further fixes are addressed in the update; but it does confirm my suspicions that the App has the ability to influence ESC hard-settings and now the question still stands I had earlier: :"Does the App have the ability to override hard-settings in an aftermarket ESC as well?"

    After updating, I'm gonna whip out my Castle Link and read my ESC settings. I have a template of what my settings were and the Castle Link has the ability to read settings only. So I'll definitely find out what is going on after this update and if the update altered any hard-settings in my ESC.

    I'm gonna go check and see what this update really does for my vehicles and if the problem was corrected or not.

    EDIT:

    Turns out, the TQi and TSM versions are the same and were not addressed in this update. Apparently, I am waiting for the firmware to be corrected; not the Application Version.
    Last edited by Flux Capacitor; 03-01-2019 at 10:40 PM. Reason: Correction
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    RC Turnbuckle Jr. ReglarGuy's Avatar
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    Do you know if the App is capable of overriding hard-set ESC settings in aftermarket ESC's? If it is capable of doing that, then it would explain a lot of the troubles I have been experiencing lately on aftermarket ESC's.
    Easy question, and the answer is: which ever component in your system has the most percentage. If (for example) you have your Traxxas app set to "Override Transmitter Settings", the Traxxas app "Braking" to 50%, and your ESC "Braking" to 75%; then you will have 75% braking applied to your RC.

    If you have your Traxxas app set to "Override Transmitter Settings", the Traxxas app "Braking" to 75%, and your ESC "Braking" to 50%; then you will have 75% braking applied to your RC. The final braking percentage is the same. The difference being, that there is a different system component providing the final control in each example. In the first it's the ESC, and in the second it's the Traxxas app controlled Xmitter.

    What I do (to keep things simple) is I use my ESC's settings for things that my Traxxas app can't do, and my Traxxas app for everything else. For example: I use my ESC for "Battery Cut-Off", and my Traxxas app for "Brake Percentage". The reason? Because, it's a lot easier to use my Traxxas app in the field to change my settings than it is using my laptop.
    Last edited by ReglarGuy; 03-02-2019 at 05:00 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReglarGuy View Post
    Easy question, and the answer is: which ever component in your system has the most percentage. If (for example) you have your Traxxas app set to "Override Transmitter Settings", the Traxxas app "Braking" to 50%, and your ESC "Braking" to 75%; then you will have 75% braking applied to your RC.

    If you have your Traxxas app set to "Override Transmitter Settings", the Traxxas app "Braking" to 75%, and your ESC "Braking" to 50%; then you will have 75% braking applied to your RC. The final braking percentage is the same. The difference being, that there is a different system component providing the final control in each example. In the first it's the ESC, and in the second it's the Traxxas app controlled Xmitter.

    What I do (to keep things simple) is I use my ESC's settings for things that my Traxxas app can't do, and my Traxxas app for everything else. For example: I use my ESC for "Battery Cut-Off", and my Traxxas app for "Brake Percentage". The reason? Because, it's a lot easier to use my Traxxas app in the field to change my settings than it is using my laptop.

    Thank you for the explanation about the braking percentages. I did know that the App had the ability to update ESC's; I just wasn't sure if it was just firmware that the updates addressed. I saw a guy had a question in the X-Maxx forum about if anyone knew what the updates actually did to the Tx, Rx and ESC. I know that when they release the updates, they usually have a short explanation about what the update addresses; but I think he wanted to know more specifically what the updates were really doing.

    I think legitimately and undeniably once you purchase a product, the customer does have an exclusive right to a full explanation of what software updates are doing to their hardware. Traxxas seems to take the easy way out and hide behind the fact that it is all patent pending technology and the explicit details are lock trademarked and a "need to know only basis" within their designer circle of exquisite knowledge.

    I understand their right to protect intellectual property; but when their intellectual property ideas effect how my end user product operates after the fact that I own it, well..........who really owns it when they are in control of how it operates at any given time?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flux Capacitor View Post
    I did know that the App had the ability to update ESC's.
    If you have a Traxxas ESC (along with a Traxxas xmitter and receiver) then it can be updated by the Traxxas app, but if you have a non-Traxxas ESC (as I do) it can not be updated by the Traxxas app. Don't get updating software confused with what we were talking about above. Above, we were only talking about what had the final say-so in the control of a selected shared feature between a Traxxas app controlled Traxxas xmitter and a non-Traxxas ESC.
    Last edited by ReglarGuy; 03-02-2019 at 04:53 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReglarGuy View Post
    If you have a Traxxas ESC (along with a Traxxas xmitter and receiver) then it can be updated by the Traxxas app, but if you have a non-Traxxas ESC (as I do) it can not be updated by the Traxxas app. Don't get updating software confused with what we were talking about above. Above, we were only talking about what had the final say-so in the control of a selected shared feature between a Traxxas app controlled Traxxas xmitter and a non-Traxxas ESC.
    Yes, I was able to differentiate between the two things we were discussing.

    My vehicle did something completely unexpected today. I had it out in the yard and whipped out my phone and connected via Bluetooth to my Tx and the vehicle icon was also green in the app and when it connected, it went into reverse by itself! Thank the man upstairs I had my reverse percentage set to only 25% because I could not stop it from reversing and I just steered it in a reverse circle until I could finagle my hands around to shutting down the app.

    When the app shut down, it stopped going into reverse. Just out of curiosity, I reconnected the app and it did it again - I was ready for it though because I had it on its back and it couldn't go anywhere. Further troubleshooting led to me disabling the "Override Transmitter Settings" and re-enabling it and it corrected the problem.

    Traxxas should issue a warning that just enabling the app could cause unwanted movement of the vehicle. I then decided to check for an update while it was still on its back and it did it again. Went full reverse the whole time it was searching for an update. When it was done searching for an update and didn't find any, the reverse movement stopped.

    I tried it again to confirm, and sure enough, when I search for an update with the app; the vehicle went into full reverse mode.

    Something is definitely not right and I'm am very certain it is not with my Tx, Rx or my ESC --- it is with the app itself because all the evidence suggest when it links via Bluetooth, the problems immediately start and it is different every time in what it will do.

    Examples would be:

    Sometimes TSM works.
    Sometimes TSM doesn't work.
    Sometimes TSM works even when it is shut off in the app and multi-function knob on the Tx is all the way counterclockwise; because by default, the TSM is assigned to the multi-function knob on the Tx.
    Sometimes the vehicle goes into reverse.
    Sometimes it goes into forward with a automatic hard right turn.
    Sometimes it even disrupts the binding between the Tx and Rx.

    I'm ready to delete the App from the phone and clear all the Tx's and start fresh to see if the app somehow became corrupted on my phone.

    It is literally the only thing I have left to try.
    Last edited by Flux Capacitor; 03-02-2019 at 10:11 PM. Reason: Word correction.
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  18. #18
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. ReglarGuy's Avatar
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    I'm ready to delete the App from the phone and clear all the Tx's and start fresh to see if the app somehow became corrupted on my phone.
    Good idea, and if that don't work give Traxxas a call. They are the ones who helped me get started with their app.
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    Well thank you guy's this explains why my TSM still works with the knob off because it's still set in the app, at least I think that's the way I read what your saying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rain Dawg View Post
    Well thank you guy's this explains why my TSM still works with the knob off because it's still set in the app, at least I think that's the way I read what your saying.
    Yes, if it is set in the app and you are linked via Bluetooth and you have "Override Transmitter Settings" toggled on in "Preferences", it doesn't matter if the multi-function knob is turned all the way counterclockwise (off) TSM will still work.

    So........after all the problems I was having, I deleted the App entirely from my phone and reinstalled a fresh version and started from scratch on my transmitters too.

    The problems are gone now and I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it corrected all of them. I would like to know how in the heck my App got corrupted. Wait a minute, no I don't, because if it is like everything else technologically advanced; somehow or other it is going to cause its own problems all on its own.
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    Thanks for clarifying it's much appreciated, I'm glad to hear yours is working again. Sometimes my phone acts up and I just get a spinning circle so I power it off pull the sim card wait a bit put it back in power it on and everything works again, I have no clue why it does what it does. So is it the app or is it our phones? I don't know.

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    The symptoms have returned on all my models running the 6533 TSM receivers. I switched all my models back to the 6518 2.4GHz receivers and returned all my transmitters to default settings and haven't had any problems since.

    The thing that puzzles me the most, is I thought I was having these problems just on the vehicles that were running after-market ESC's.

    It is apparent that even on my models running the stock ESC's, (all Traxxas electronics) the problems were still persistent when running the 6533 TSM receivers.

    So, I have went back to non-Bluetooth/Traxxas Link App equipped electronics on both my stock and after-market electronics and realized how much I miss being in control manually of my settings.

    The settings in the menu tree on the transmitters came back to me like it was yesterday, although I hadn't done them manually in over a year.

    Most of the settings done in the Traxxas link App can be done from the menu tree on the TX and the after-market ESC's I have can handle the rest because the ESC's come with software that allow for customizations beyond TX settings alone and since I don't give a squat about telemetry, I'm not losing anything I'm worried about.

    In short, the Traxxas Link App and the Bluetooth module were fun when they worked; however, lately it seems more of a hassle than a pleasure to use the system because frankly, I don't think Traxxas has a clue what they are doing when it comes to implementing the updates to the TSM receivers, ESC's or transmitters. If they do, then why lately does everyone seem to be reporting run-away vehicles and all sorts of other problems like I outlined in this thread?

    It begs the question: "What is their definition of working?"

    In other words, old school methods are working better for me at this time, and honestly I never liked the TSM feature for anything that goes under 50 MPH.

    I'm sticking with 6518 receivers from here on out, because at least I know when I turn on my vehicles from now on, I don't have to worry about them doing something unexpected because some programmer at work had an off day.

    I'm in control of my vehicles again, and I hope they never quit making the 6518 receivers.
    Last edited by Flux Capacitor; 03-24-2019 at 09:53 AM. Reason: Fixed.
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