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  1. #1
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    Conversion to brushless rcharlance 3660 3800kv motor and need new tires ???

    As the tittle say, i installed a rcharlance 3660 3800kv motor with a 4s 80A esc in my pede. It was originaly a vxl converted to brushes by last owner (he probably kept the velineon and put the titan to sell) and i just returned it to chineese brushless.

    The motor has a 5mm shaft so i had to use 5mm 32p pinion because the 3.2mm oem doesn't fit. I tryed first a 13:54 ratio.
    Specs says 1200w 3.5T 92A with 50 000rpm max...max 13v. (I recorded 59A at 8.4v when holding the titan on the carpet (495w)

    This motor and 80A esc combo is just awesome for 62$+20$ gears. even with my old nimh 8.4 it pull a lot stronger than the Titan.
    With just medium starting power programmed, It run very fast on 3s and really elevate the pede level of fun and skill to drive.

    on 4S it get crazy fast and very hard to drive on short space. i know it is a bit beyond what the motor can handle but with that low gear and carefully looking at motor temp. i was confident to try it.

    I have the vxl shafts so this part seem to hold fine for now. But the problem is the tires and wheels.
    I had to reglue my tires on 3s because it get so wide that it just runnaway on snow bashing...

    I tested to program the esc for more reverse and brake torque and played a bit with the 4s indoor on carpet and one of the wheel just broke off where it attach to the hub...

    I need new wheels and tires so what i should get to being able to handle the new power without messing too often with that ?

    I did see some on amazon but the reviews wasn't good about the wheels and peoples where using lower power...

    I would like to have similar or slightly smaller tire final height but on larger wheels for more stiffness. i have in mind it could help handling if tires keep the initial shape a bit more than now....

    any suggestion are welcome!

  2. #2
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. olds97_lss's Avatar
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    Do you know what diffs you have? The brushed diffs were geared lower than the brushless ones.

    I was running the castle sct sv3/3800kv system in my stampede for a while, mostly on 2S and it did ok. Was a bit soft on torque. The motor ran pretty hot when I tried 3S in it and I ended up changing the system out for a HW max10 sct and hobbystar 3665 3200kv motor. The esc still overheats on me with 3S, 2.8" trenchers, 14/54 gearing when I run in grass a lot. Thinking of trying a 1/8th scale esc in it... got a spare blx185 I can try shoehorning in it.
    https://www.youtube.com/c/olds97lss

  3. #3
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    The P4de is fine on 2s stock. Once you go to 3s power you will need to upgrade things.

    I'd upgrade diffs to xo1 diffs. It's basically the same diff but the xo1 diff has an additional piece inside that strengthens things.

    You also need to upgrade to 17mm hexs on axles and buy 17mm wheels. You can buy already glued but I prefer to tape the inside of tires with black gorilla tape so they dont balloon and I glue myself. It's easy to do.

    You will need metal driveshafts. The plastic will start breaking all the time. I run mip xduties. Dont buy the metal dog bone style race duty drives

    You need to upgrade to revo slipper with aluminum pads and aluminum bearing adapter. I melted my slipper in to a blob when I first got mine lol.

    4s is crazy power. I have one p4de I've ran on 6s but both generally run on 4s. I can do standing backflips from sitting still. You can bulletproof on 3s but 4s will always need alot of maintenance and break things it's just a ton of power. Search for 3s upgrades in this thread for more info on upgrades I suggested theres been many posts on p4de upgrades. Enjoy!

    Just one more rc, then I'm done.
    Last edited by Briber; 01-08-2020 at 12:19 PM.
    Just need one more rc, then Ill be done...

  4. #4
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    olds97_lss The problem with the blx185 is that it wont take 2s but just 3 to 6s....

    i don't know much about different brand but as an experienced electronic technician, when i was looking at which motor to choose, i was looking for motor specs to compare them. Power, amperage rating, torque curve, resistance etc like we would find on larger industrial motors. Unfortunately, with rc motor, it is a different story. the good brand seem to hide (or not provide) those specs when Chinese give some of them more easily...
    Comparing chineese spec against chineese specs remain under the same base and when you look at it, you can see that it logically goes with motor size. it is logic that a larger motor made the same way will be stronger than a small one and this is clearly this on the spec.
    Ours are 36mm large but you can increase lenght a bit while replacing the esc....
    50mm = 900w
    60mm = 1200w
    65mm= 1400w etc
    This is the maximum instant power it can take but you can still take a longer one and program the esc to limit acceleration power and it will run cooler. reducing the gear will also reduce the load and temp...

    In resume if you have a 50mm can on 3s, it is possible that my 60mm run cooler under the same load.

    With the above, i'm not saying a good brand cannot make better motors but even if you use stronger magnets and smaller wires gaps, the capacity to handle heat will greatly be proportional to motor size and use.

  5. #5
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    Briber, I should have said, i upgraded a brushless venelion to a stronger motor so i have some parts slightly better than a brushed pede already but i plan to upgrade the other when it fail...

    the gorrila tape is a good idea, i was thinking about thicker tires but the tape could be of great help. Do you install it by using many short lenght on 90deg patern or you round 1 or 2 layer following the tire rotation ?

    And one of my friend have a 1/8 associated with very large plastic wheels and a low profile tire, i though about trying it. but those increase body stress when you hit something compared to a larger tire profile. So maybe monstertruck tires with tape is better overall?


    I did look into 17mm hex mod and wasn't sure if i would need the more complexe upgrade or only larger hex bloc. Some seem to also give wheelbase extender. I noticed that stock pede wheels are way offset compared to some other so i will check if i need the hub offset extender to keep the same wheelbase with 1/8 wheels....Do you know if 17mm hex wheels are easy to find with similar offset of the pede 12mm hex ?(I mean wheel bolting being more in the inside of the wheel to make the rc larger )
    Last edited by Jeff23spl; 01-08-2020 at 02:13 PM.

  6. #6
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. olds97_lss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff23spl View Post
    olds97_lss The problem with the blx185 is that it wont take 2s but just 3 to 6s....
    I was just mentioning it as my progression.

    I've had in my stampede 4x4 vxl:
    traxxas vxl-3s w/traxxas 3500kv motor - ran on 2S only
    - ran hot, shut down a lot

    castle sct sv3 w/castle 3800kv motor - ran on 2S most of it's life, a few times on 3S
    - did fine on 2S for over a year
    - ran hot on 3S

    hobbywing max10 sct w/ hobbywing 3660sl 3200kv motor - 3S only
    - repeatedly shut down even on concrete. according to the lights, the motor was hot but my IR didn't say it was over 160F.

    hobbywing max10 sct w/ hobbystar 3665 3200kv motor - 3S only (current setup)

    I don't intend on running less than 3S in mine ever again. So the BLX185 is a viable option for me to help combat the esc thermalling since I have it on hand.

    The last time I ran it, it shut down on me after about 2/3's of the time I expected. I'm not sure if the pack just dumped (it was old), or if the drag from wet grass just stressed the thing too much (was freshly mowed and raining at the time) or if I'm expecting too much out of the system. Had a lot of variables that day.

    I'll run it more in the spring and see how it does as is before I fiddle with it. It's a truck I run a lot in the winter since it's smaller, light and can take abuse.
    https://www.youtube.com/c/olds97lss

  7. #7
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. Briber's Avatar
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    Taping tires is easy. Turn tire inside out. Use alcohol or I use a foaming window cleaner with ammonia to clean surface well. Dry. Go long ways with one solid piece all the way around, just one layer thick, back to start and overlap 1/8". Flip tire outside back in and work tape from center out to sidewall spinning tire in hand until all tape has been pressed down inside tire. Google vids on gluing it's all pretty easy once you do it one time and realize. I've tried different "heavy duty waterproof tapes" and only success I've had is with black gorilla tape.

    On drives it's not complex. Oh the plastic drives are plastic drives whether it's the brushed or vxl, their not gonna last on 3s or 4s. Back to complexity, the MIP X duties the same design as Trx plastic stock ones. You dont need to swap out hubs or anything the mips are direct replacement. Theres an axle on both plastic Trx drives and mips x duties that attached to a u-joint that connects to shaft that slides on to splines on other half that connect to u-joint that connect to output shaft from diff. Same design basically but one is metal(mips) and the ones you have now that are plastic. Google videos on rc driveshaft bench tests and make your own decision I saw a good one while back. It didnt test xduties but you can see comparison between different types.

    On the hex conversion from 12mm to 17mm is just a simple addition piece on axle. I have mip and hot racing adapters from 2mm to 10mm of offset for wider stance and more stability. Along with wider arms on one of them that used to be a speed runner notice blue p4des stance in pic below compared to red. Yes extending things and going bigger does put more stress on axles but you'll break fewer axles if any(ive never broke an axle but have heard 1 other that has, depends on usage and maintenance too)doing the swap than all the breaks you'll have with 12mm hex wheels and weaker set up on 3s-4s power. Just my experience past 5years and 3 different pedes I've had all upgraded to 1/8 scale power systems at some point from stock. Yes tons of 17mm wheels google or Ebay them. Yes make sure offsets are correct. Heres diff wheels/sizes I've had on my pede. The big wheels pictured on it are for my ERBE lol. They are impractical to bash on though. Doesnt turn well lol.

    I know this us in references to the vxl, but it's my answer to running on 3s or higher in general and shows difference in my adapters https://forums.traxxas.com/showthread.php?p=6296896

    Just one more rc, then I'm done.



    Last edited by Briber; 01-08-2020 at 04:11 PM.
    Just need one more rc, then Ill be done...

  8. #8
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    nice pictures Briber!
    I read your other thread and noted about body stiffness with drywall tape...i will do it too!

    I like to mod everything i can so rc isn't different but at some point i ask myself if i should just keep it on 3s max and look to get something factory designed stronger or if it is possible to upgrade the pede to run safe with more power?
    (I will be bashing with friends running arrma 1/8 6s)
    I saw you seem to have a typhoon 6s also on the other pics? what do you think about this ? Do you still like your modded pede ?

    With metal axles and everything stronger, would you try a 3665 2000w motor and 120A esc on the pede or it will just be always broken ?

  9. #9
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. Briber's Avatar
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    Thanks. I read and swore I responded yesterday but guess not lol. The typhoon was borrowed I do not own one. My personal fav is ERBE 2.0 and what I'd like to run with other 8th scales rcs. See size difference in pic of the two. I know their both considered 10th scale but clearly size difference. With everything stronger just means my p4de is bullet proof on 3s and pretty reliable on 4s unless I'm just being ruthless that day on 4s and pushing it hard I may break something from an accident but drivetrane is pretty solid on 4s. Yes I do still like my p4de! I love all my rcs for different reasons. Some just look cool. Some just perform better than others depending on location I'm running so I choose accordingly and some are just a labor of love and have sentimental value.

    Just one more rc, then I'm done.
    Last edited by Briber; 01-09-2020 at 07:49 AM.
    Just need one more rc, then Ill be done...

  10. #10
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    olds97_lss let us know if the arrma is better but i cannot find the Rds-on spec of both esc nor the switching frequency to compare efficiency.
    The arrma is larger so it may have a larger heatsink for more cooling?
    Electricaly speaking, with same motor and same gear, it will ask the same current from the esc, then, it will generate a similar amount of heat into the esc...If you keep having esc thermal shutdown and cannot increase cooling, you would need to reduce gear or kv to reduce amps....
    If the motor take it and isn't a problem, you can retrieve the same rpm/speed at the wheels by using more batterie voltage with reduced current for the same power. watts = amps x volts.....(but yes you will have more torque and current during accel if you don't reduce ESC punch)

    Btw i'm not a fan of esc motor thermal model protection. to trip on motor temp. without a temp. probe on the motor, the esc have to follow a programmed thermal model and if the motor you are using isn't exactly the one programmed, it won't work. Just add a fan on motor and it will be cooler than what esc will expect it to be as you tested it....

  11. #11
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. olds97_lss's Avatar
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    The HW max10 sct/3660sl 3200kv is a paired combo and the motor has a port for the temp sensor wire coming out of the esc. I just went with the longer 3665 3200kv which doesn't have the port and relied on my temp gun.

    I just need to run it more. Ever since I got the EREBv1 converted to a v2, it has consumed most of my wheel time. My other trucks have all taken a bit of a back seat. Especially since I started running at a grass bmx track, which the stampede tends to have a hard time with regardless as the extra drag from the grass saps off speed, even when it's not wet. The ERBEv2 is a lot of fun there, so that and my outcast 6S are what I drive there. Since it's an hour drive, going there usually knocks out my entire day, so I only take those two.
    https://www.youtube.com/c/olds97lss

  12. #12
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    i understand!
    I retain the fact you also have an outcast....my friend will be riding one against my pede....There will be a Kraton, and some other modded 1/10....This one of the reason i bough a brushless combo during the holidays to keep up with them...
    There is no more than our own EGO about racing against each others but i wonder how yours compare against your moded pede?
    We did some bashing on snow and the lower wheel base and height of my pede proved i wasn't at the same level despite we both had fun. I expect it may change this summer. The pede is about half the weight of the Arrma so i don't need as much power to keep up....What do you think ?

  13. #13
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. olds97_lss's Avatar
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    With the setup I have in my 4pede vxl currently, it doesn't really hold a candle to the outcast 6S or ERBEv2 regarding performance and handling. The only real thing it has going for it is that it's lighter, so when I screw up and crash badly, it tends to slough it off whereas the outcast and ERBEv2 tend to get things bent or broken.

    I bash all of them equally as hard, full throttle launches off the same jumps. The main issue with the stampede is that it's so short/small that when it's in flight, it can be hard to land because the rotations are so quick and it doesn't absorb a good landing as well from a big jump, it tends to bounce and flip.

    I'd probably be better with it if I drove it more. Just one of those things, once your used to it, it's a bit different.

    Even still, the torque/speed of 6S is not comparable to a 3S truck. I think my stampede is geared to top out around 40-45mph and my outcast/erbev2 top out a bit above 50mph. None of the 3 are easy to deal with at full speed. lol! They are all pretty short wheel base, so they tend to be a bit sketchy when you lean on the throttle.

    For me, the stampede has become a skate park runner. I launch it with reckless abandon at skate parks and as long as the wheels are pointing down, it usually drives away. I did have fun with it in the snow last winter though. With it being light, it can skim across the top of the snow for a bit if your at WOT. Also being light, jumping isn't so hard on it even in the cold.



    The hobbystar 3665 3100kv vs the Hobbywing 3660 3200kv motors:


    Setup:
    Hobbywing Max10 SCT
    Hobbystar 3100kv/3665
    14/54 pinion/spur
    SMC 7200mah 3S 90C
    Associated 70wt front rear
    VG Springs/GTR Shocks VDK 1/16"
    Center Diff-250K (FLM Alloy cup)
    MIP X-Duty CVD's
    HR Axle carriers rear
    HR Axle carriers/c-hubs front
    HR Steering/servo saver
    RPM Arms
    King Heads alloy motor brace (runs larger bearing)
    Tekno Big Bone center axle
    Hitec 5985 servo
    https://www.youtube.com/c/olds97lss

  14. #14
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    thanks for the feedbacks!

    i like your aluminium rollbar, is it more to help the cover when it flip or to add frame stiffness ?
    What is the green thing in top of it ?

  15. #15
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. olds97_lss's Avatar
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    That's version 3. It's there to support the roof of the body when I land on the roof. As you know, the body on a stampede can be very short lived as it buckles at the base of the windshield, then cracks in half and the small body mount holes just rip/crack very early in it's life. The roll bar is just connected to the tops of the shock towers through the body mount piece. I made a couple holes in it and ran a bolt through. It's also notched so it keeps the towers from folding in and helps support the chassis from folding in and cracking, I hope. I have busted a chassis in half... that was with the last version of the roll bar that I mounted to the side skirts of the chassis deck. It looked bad and was a pain to work around. This one looks awful, but seems to do the job better and is easy to work around. It does look ridiculous, but it seems to serve the purpose of helping the body last longer.

    The green thing is a go pro. I was trying to figure a way to mount it so it would stay put regardless how hard I jump it, but be somewhat protected. That's the 5th or 6th iteration of a camera mount I've tried on 4 of my trucks and so far, it's the most solid one that seems to work the best. Adding the camera to it was just something I tried and it worked out well.

    I mount the camera on their for a PIP type video when I run that truck. I need to figure a similar mounting setup on my outcast. Not sure I can do the same on my ERBEv2... body is too low. But I think I can do it on my outcast similarly.

    You can see footage with that here: PIP Stampede Video
    Last edited by olds97_lss; 01-10-2020 at 06:47 PM.
    https://www.youtube.com/c/olds97lss

  16. #16
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    Last edited by Jeff23spl; 01-11-2020 at 12:23 AM.

  17. #17
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. olds97_lss's Avatar
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    Doesn't appear dropbox photo's can be hot linked
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/k9028ru69r...110_230749.jpg

    Are those proline 2.8" masher tires?
    https://www.youtube.com/c/olds97lss

  18. #18
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    Not sure i got them installed on the pede. It s a bit taller than oem traxxas

  19. #19
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    got my 150mm wheels with 17mm hex and what i though would be a conversion to 17mm hex but it was in fact a 17mm wide spacer for 12mm wheels i'm waiting for a new set of adapters...this time i took time to read carefully...

    olds97_lss in your video are you using the traxxas TSW traction control to run this straight or it many practicing hours ?

    Briber what is the diameter of your large wheels ?

  20. #20
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. olds97_lss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff23spl View Post
    olds97_lss in your video are you using the traxxas TSW traction control to run this straight or it many practicing hours ?
    Not sure what you mean. I don't use a traxxas radio or a receiver with gyro or anything. Just a basic spektrum dx5c and no frills 2 channel receivers.

    I did have to get used to the servo I put in it as I went through a couple 2075's then replaced it with a spare hitec 5985MG I had on hand which is a lot quicker/stronger. Made for a twitchy bash or two until I got the feel for that.

    The center diff also helps calm it down a bit. Wasn't bad on 2S with the normal slipper, but on 3S, it was very twitchy (lots of impromptu wheelies). I can still wheelie pretty easily, but it tends to be a bit softer about it.
    https://www.youtube.com/c/olds97lss

  21. #21
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    olds97_lss you answered my question, i didn't tried it on a gripping surface yet, the rear drift so much on snow or on polished concrete surface that i was wondering if many use gyro stability control to help it.
    And i just saw the traxxas stability system that also came with the possibility to add sensors to read data and send them to a cell phone. Data logging look cool but expensive alone. If i could artificially improve my driving skills at the same time, it may worth it ?
    I just wonder if it is more a gadget and i would better practice or if someone skilled can still take advantage of this?

  22. #22
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. olds97_lss's Avatar
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    I've never driven one with anything like that, so I can't say. I'm sure it does help, especially for those going 50mph+. For most of what I do, I rarely reach top speeds anyway, but the stampede is one that becomes a real handful at high speeds. My savage flux hp is another. When I ran 4S in it, it wasn't too bad, but with 6S in it, it gets a mind of it's own over 40mph!
    https://www.youtube.com/c/olds97lss

  23. #23
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. Briber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff23spl View Post
    olds97_lss you answered my question, i didn't tried it on a gripping surface yet, the rear drift so much on snow or on polished concrete surface that i was wondering if many use gyro stability control to help it.
    And i just saw the traxxas stability system that also came with the possibility to add sensors to read data and send them to a cell phone. Data logging look cool but expensive alone. If i could artificially improve my driving skills at the same time, it may worth it ?
    I just wonder if it is more a gadget and i would better practice or if someone skilled can still take advantage of this?
    Only thing that hones skills is practice. The tsm is not all that more a beginner thing than anything. While it helps in the very beginning of a noobs rc career it hasn't been used since my first stampede 4x4 5yrs ago and was only used on it for short time before it actually hindered driving it. It makes the rc act funny when giving input in tx. Turning is just sloppy to me. I thought itd be a great addition to my speedrunner but after two 102mph passes on rustler I realized I had it off so it didnt need it for high speed rc or my dirt bashers. Old rc guy told me once finger control son lol. Meaning drive it and get used to it dont rely on tsm. On wheels n tires I'll have to measure but their close to same as stock erevo size. Heres same tires I run those on it normally. To remind also they are not practical on P4de and not recommended lol. I had telemetry on my p4de in beginning while its super cool and can use Trx app to adjust things it's not really worth the money. You need a ir heat gun for hobby anyway, so use that instead of sensor wire on rc through app. Plus you get more rcs you can use heat gun for them too or else your buying telemetry for every rcs you get. It's not that expensive for most of it and it's cool but to get true speeds you'll need Trx gps which is really pricey when you can get standalone gps like Garmin that will again be able to use on all rcs not just one if you get more.

    Just one more rc, then I'm done.
    Last edited by Briber; 01-18-2020 at 10:49 AM.
    Just need one more rc, then Ill be done...

  24. #24
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    make sens! i was looking at a used kit for 100$ but i will put that money somewhere else....probably axles...so i checked the mip xduties and it look strong.

    the race one you are talking about to avoid are the one with tiny solid shaft ? my friend just keep bending them on it's team


    Edited for language abuse. If you see a starred out word in your post, you must edit it out to avoid earning warning points.
    Last edited by cooleocool; 02-02-2020 at 11:21 PM.

  25. #25
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. Briber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff23spl View Post
    make sens! i was looking at a used kit for 100$ but i will put that money somewhere else....probably axles...so i checked the mip xduties and it look strong.

    the race one you are talking about to avoid are the one with tiny solid shaft ? my friend just keep bending them on it's team
    Yes the thin solid drive is race duty.

    Money well spent is upgrading drive shafts. You'll get more run time outta that money spent than spending on the telemetry lol. Get the telemetry way later after all the upgrading is done.

    Just one more rc, then I'm done.
    Last edited by cooleocool; 02-02-2020 at 11:21 PM. Reason: modified quote
    Just need one more rc, then Ill be done...

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