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Thread: Crawler Noob

  1. #1
    RC Turnbuckle Jr.
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    Crawler Noob

    Just ordered the TRX4 Sport kit. Excited to build. Any advice welcome.


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  2. #2
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    Do you guys like High end brushed, or sensored brushless systems?


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    Depends on the rig.

    My TRX4 and TRX6 both run sensored Mamba-X systems. My Tonka TRX4 runs a HW1080 with a Titan motor.

    Never built the kit version of this rig, but from what I have heard the instructions are good and it pretty much falls together.


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    RC Turnbuckle Jr. jamann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gripdog7205 View Post
    Do you guys like High end brushed, or sensored brushless systems?


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    It's a personal choice.
    I choose brushless sensored
    More run time lots of power if needed and pretty close to the same slow speed start up and control.
    That being said you can get a pretty good brushed setup pretty cheaply.

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  5. #5
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    I searched servo in this sub forum. Donít see too much. Is 25kg(350 inlbs) a good torque rating for the sport. Seems like more than enough. Just like some. Information from owners.


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    RC Turnbuckle Jr. jamann's Avatar
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    Can never have enough torque....pretty much.
    Being the sport it will be lighter than the full decked out versions
    I'm running a promodeler 470.
    470 oz @ 6v if you go to a more powerful servo and are running the stock esc it will struggle to supply the power being requested.
    Stock esc's in general have weak BEC'S(Battery Elimination Circut)
    So it can not supply the amps fast enough and in enough supply to meet the needs of the servo.
    So many opt to use a external bec
    Such as castle creations 10amp bec
    Also allows you to run higher voltage to just the servo as some servos can run higher voltage
    Most receivers like 6v.
    So after all that 350 oz will get the job done but still may need a bec to give it clean power

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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamann View Post
    Can never have enough torque....pretty much.
    Being the sport it will be lighter than the full decked out versions
    I'm running a promodeler 470.
    470 oz @ 6v if you go to a more powerful servo and are running the stock esc it will struggle to supply the power being requested.
    Stock esc's in general have weak BEC'S(Battery Elimination Circut)
    So it can not supply the amps fast enough and in enough supply to meet the needs of the servo.
    So many opt to use a external bec
    Such as castle creations 10amp bec
    Also allows you to run higher voltage to just the servo as some servos can run higher voltage
    Most receivers like 6v.
    So after all that 350 oz will get the job done but still may need a bec to give it clean power

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    I should mention this, Iím an RC guy, Kenny is builds on this forum, just not a crawler. So acronyms and gadgets I completely understand. Iím just curious what the recommendations are. I got the kit so I can build it how Iíd like. I wonít be running traxxas electronics. I will most likely be going with a HW sensored WP esc, and still on the fence on motors. I run Futaba gear so I can run 7.4 vdc BEC. I run a CC 2.0 WP BEC in my X-maxx. If I brown out, Iíll install one of those.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Gripdog7205 View Post
    I should mention this, Iím an RC guy, Kenny is builds on this forum, just not a crawler. So acronyms and gadgets I completely understand. Iím just curious what the recommendations are. I got the kit so I can build it how Iíd like. I wonít be running traxxas electronics. I will most likely be going with a HW sensored WP esc, and still on the fence on motors. I run Futaba gear so I can run 7.4 vdc BEC. I run a CC 2.0 WP BEC in my X-maxx. If I brown out, Iíll install one of those.


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    I have four of these, one in a TRX-4 sport. Itís fine at 6.0 or 7.4v:

    https://www.savoxusa.com/products/sa...reless-digital


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    RC Turnbuckle Jr. Greatscott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gripdog7205 View Post
    I should mention this, I’m an RC guy, Kenny is builds on this forum, just not a crawler. So acronyms and gadgets I completely understand. I’m just curious what the recommendations are. I got the kit so I can build it how I’d like. I won’t be running traxxas electronics. I will most likely be going with a HW sensored WP esc, and still on the fence on motors. I run Futaba gear so I can run 7.4 vdc BEC. I run a CC 2.0 WP BEC in my X-maxx. If I brown out, I’ll install one of those.


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    If you running BL sensored, recommend a motor in the 1800 - 2800kv range. I am running the Castle 1800kv on my TRX4 and have excellent torque, power, speed and control throughout the range of the motor. Of course the two-speed really helps with dialing in the power band.

    In my TRX6 I am running a HW 2600kv motor, it does pretty good, but I was disappointed with the top speed, think it should be faster; but it still has enough speed to put a grin on my face.

    Have you thought about the two-speed and the locking diffs?
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatscott View Post
    If you running BL sensored, recommend a motor in the 1800 - 2800kv range. I am running the Castle 1800kv on my TRX4 and have excellent torque, power, speed and control throughout the range of the motor. Of course the two-speed really helps with dialing in the power band.

    In my TRX6 I am running a HW 2600kv motor, it does pretty good, but I was disappointed with the top speed, think it should be faster; but it still has enough speed to put a grin on my face.

    Have you thought about the two-speed and the locking diffs?
    Mine is single speed, and yes I have thought about the locker servo. Just havenít gotten that far. Iíve got a Mamba X and Caste 1900 kv crawler combo in the cart now


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  11. #11
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. Greatscott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gripdog7205 View Post
    Mine is single speed, and yes I have thought about the locker servo. Just haven’t gotten that far. I’ve got a Mamba X and Caste 1900 kv crawler combo in the cart now


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    Excellent combo...

    Of course you'll need to do the normal waterproofing, I use dielectric grease on all of the sensor connections.
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  12. #12
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    I'm running the x and a trailmaster pro 2700 on 3s it's got a good balance for what I do.
    The mamba x is the first esc I have run without a bec.Pretty much the only rig I have without one

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    Thanks for the feedback guys. I always try to make slow methodical builds. The slow part usually doesnít happen. Iím gonna go with PowerHD servo. Price vs performance are good with these. If and when it fails Iíll go with something else. Iím a castle esc fan, but never had their motors.


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    RC Turnbuckle Jr. Greatscott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamann View Post
    I'm running the x and a trailmaster pro 2700 on 3s it's got a good balance for what I do.
    The mamba x is the first esc I have run without a bec.Pretty much the only rig I have without one

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    With an internal BEC that has selectable voltage and 8 amps, there is no need to run an external BEC with the Mamba-X. Running Mambas on my TRX4 and TRX6 has made me spoiled.

    You really don't understand how much of any annoyance running an external BEC is until you run a Mamba-X and don't have to. I am putting together an Element Enduro C1 rig, and have decided to go with the SW4 and an out runner motor (this combo is about the same price as the Mamba-X is, without the motor). I was flabbergasted when I saw that it only has a 5VDC 2A BEC. So this means I'll be running at tap off of the battery connector and figuring out where to stuff the BEC.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatscott View Post
    With an internal BEC that has selectable voltage and 8 amps, there is no need to run an external BEC with the Mamba-X. Running Mambas on my TRX4 and TRX6 has made me spoiled.

    You really don't understand how much of any annoyance running an external BEC is until you run a Mamba-X and don't have to. I am putting together an Element Enduro C1 rig, and have decided to go with the SW4 and an out runner motor (this combo is about the same price as the Mamba-X is, without the motor). I was flabbergasted when I saw that it only has a 5VDC 2A BEC. So this means I'll be running at tap off of the battery connector and figuring out where to stuff the BEC.
    I have an MMX in the Rustler Speed car, with a 1258TG no external BEC. The X-Maxx with the 2290 does, my lights would dim without it, that ESC is a HW Max5


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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatscott View Post
    With an internal BEC that has selectable voltage and 8 amps, there is no need to run an external BEC with the Mamba-X. Running Mambas on my TRX4 and TRX6 has made me spoiled.

    You really don't understand how much of any annoyance running an external BEC is until you run a Mamba-X and don't have to. I am putting together an Element Enduro C1 rig, and have decided to go with the SW4 and an out runner motor (this combo is about the same price as the Mamba-X is, without the motor). I was flabbergasted when I saw that it only has a 5VDC 2A BEC. So this means I'll be running at tap off of the battery connector and figuring out where to stuff the BEC.
    Not always/entirely correct. Even with the Mamba X, I can think of at least three very valid reasons for running an external BEC.

    First...this mostly applies to other less-powerful ESCs, but could also apply to the Mamba X...is if you're running the servo at 8.4V, as the Amp draw could hit, or exceed, the internal BEC (remember, the BEC is powering more than just the servo, such as the Rx, itself).

    Next, if you're running accessories (lighting, winches, etc) that need to operate at 6.0V, but you want the servo running at 7.4/8.4V. You'd set the ESC's internal BEC to run at 6.0V, and you'd program the external BEC to operate at 7.4/8.4V.

    Finally, if you're running multiple servos (such as 4WS, winches, dig, 2spd shift, etc), this would be an excellent reason for running an external BEC, whether the external is programmed to a different voltage, or the same voltage, as the internal BEC. Remember that, in addition to a maximum voltage, the BECs also have a maximum Amperage output, and, with all those things connected to a single (internal) BEC, it is possible to exceed the max Amperage.

    In some of my race vehicles, in addition to the ESC's internal BEC, I run a 'booster' BEC, which plus directly into any open port on the Rx (these are NOT programmable, and must be purchased in specific voltages).

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  17. #17
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. jamann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatscott View Post
    With an internal BEC that has selectable voltage and 8 amps, there is no need to run an external BEC with the Mamba-X. Running Mambas on my TRX4 and TRX6 has made me spoiled.

    You really don't understand how much of any annoyance running an external BEC is until you run a Mamba-X and don't have to. I am putting together an Element Enduro C1 rig, and have decided to go with the SW4 and an out runner motor (this combo is about the same price as the Mamba-X is, without the motor). I was flabbergasted when I saw that it only has a 5VDC 2A BEC. So this means I'll be running at tap off of the battery connector and figuring out where to stuff the BEC.
    Yes they always seem to be in the way.no matter where you put them.lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Panther6834 View Post
    Not always/entirely correct. Even with the Mamba X, I can think of at least three very valid reasons for running an external BEC.

    First...this mostly applies to other less-powerful ESCs, but could also apply to the Mamba X...is if you're running the servo at 8.4V, as the Amp draw could hit, or exceed, the internal BEC (remember, the BEC is powering more than just the servo, such as the Rx, itself).

    Next, if you're running accessories (lighting, winches, etc) that need to operate at 6.0V, but you want the servo running at 7.4/8.4V. You'd set the ESC's internal BEC to run at 6.0V, and you'd program the external BEC to operate at 7.4/8.4V.

    Finally, if you're running multiple servos (such as 4WS, winches, dig, 2spd shift, etc), this would be an excellent reason for running an external BEC, whether the external is programmed to a different voltage, or the same voltage, as the internal BEC. Remember that, in addition to a maximum voltage, the BECs also have a maximum Amperage output, and, with all those things connected to a single (internal) BEC, it is possible to exceed the max Amperage.

    In some of my race vehicles, in addition to the ESC's internal BEC, I run a 'booster' BEC, which plus directly into any open port on the Rx (these are NOT programmable, and must be purchased in specific voltages).

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    Just one thing I take issue with. The current draw is inversely proportional to voltage. So as voltage goes up current draw goes down. That being said, BEC is great to step up voltage, especially if your receiver wonít take the higher voltage. Other than that yes, depending on what youíve got in your ride, you may or may not need one.
    My long term goal will be lights and winch, so Iím sure Iíll end up with one. Iím fairy fanatical about clean wiring and functionality, the 3D printer will come in handy for this.


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  19. #19
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. Greatscott's Avatar
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    I also run the Mamba-X in my Bomber, it as FWS, a monster winch, and lights. The hole mess operates off of the internal BEC with no issues (other than lousy driving).

    With that, the point is taken, every rig is different, and every rig should be evaluated for the sum if its parts in relation to consumption. In most "normal" cercomstances, the Mamba-X's internal BEC will be all you need.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gripdog7205 View Post
    Just one thing I take issue with. The current draw is inversely proportional to voltage. So as voltage goes up current draw goes down. That being said, BEC is great to step up voltage, especially if your receiver wonít take the higher voltage.
    I'm not exactly sure what you're saying by, "as voltage goes up current draw goes down". If you're powering a servo at 7.4V, the Amperage will be higher than it would be at 6.0V. At 8.4V, the Amperage would be higher than at 7.4V, and even higher than at 6.0V.

    RC Review just put together a servo torque-testing unit (and a video showing the basics of what it does, and how it does it), so that they can start testing servos, and report the 'facts' vs manufacturers 'claims'. Using a random servo, at 6.0V, peaking at sightly more than 4A. When turning the voltage up to 8.4V, the same servo peaked at slightly more than 6A. This was just a servo, and nothing else. The Rx would have a very slight (and very minor) power draw. Anything else (lights, winch, additional servos) would increase the Amperage draw.

    You can view the video here:
    https://youtu.be/ONnbbiON610

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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Panther6834 View Post
    I'm not exactly sure what you're saying by, "as voltage goes up current draw goes down". If you're powering a servo at 7.4V, the Amperage will be higher than it would be at 6.0V. At 8.4V, the Amperage would be higher than at 7.4V, and even higher than at 6.0V.

    RC Review just put together a servo torque-testing unit (and a video showing the basics of what it does, and how it does it), so that they can start testing servos, and report the 'facts' vs manufacturers 'claims'. Using a random servo, at 6.0V, peaking at sightly more than 4A. When turning the voltage up to 8.4V, the same servo peaked at slightly more than 6A. This was just a servo, and nothing else. The Rx would have a very slight (and very minor) power draw. Anything else (lights, winch, additional servos) would increase the Amperage draw.

    You can view the video here:
    https://youtu.be/ONnbbiON610

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    Ohms law, is what I was referring to.


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    Me personally I do not like the noise from the Low-speed BL systems. I have a HW 1080 and use in one rig the stock titan (do not buy that for the kit) or a HH trailmaster sport 21t. Unless i gear to the moon the HH never gets warm and runs great for me. It was also 20 bucks, plus 41 for the speed control. Setting the SC at 16k Hz the motor is dead silent and has excellent control. Whatever direction you take i look forward to more details of your build and am sure you will enjoy both the build and the finished product. thanks for sharing.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by patmanz28 View Post
    Me personally I do not like the noise from the Low-speed BL systems. I have a HW 1080 and use in one rig the stock titan (do not buy that for the kit) or a HH trailmaster sport 21t. Unless i gear to the moon the HH never gets warm and runs great for me. It was also 20 bucks, plus 41 for the speed control. Setting the SC at 16k Hz the motor is dead silent and has excellent control. Whatever direction you take i look forward to more details of your build and am sure you will enjoy both the build and the finished product. thanks for sharing.
    Thank you for the input. Looks like HR has some beautiful brass for these. Might have to begin the upgrade process.


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  24. #24
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    How about the torque master series?


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    Thinking out loud. I have an esc out of a rustler vxl. Wonder how it would work with a HH brushless motor. Thoughts?


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    It would be a blast on the trails, but useless as a crawler. They have no drag brake built it, and the startup is good for a basher it would not be best for ultra slow on the rocks starts. As far as the tw master they are also 3 slot motors but made with better stuff each grade you go up. I would imagine more power/tq than the sport i have, but also higher cost.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by patmanz28 View Post
    It would be a blast on the trails, but useless as a crawler. They have no drag brake built it, and the startup is good for a basher it would not be best for ultra slow on the rocks starts. As far as the tw master they are also 3 slot motors but made with better stuff each grade you go up. I would imagine more power/tq than the sport i have, but also higher cost.
    Iíd like to start with a high quality crawler/trail motor. I donít need go fast, just power and control. I like the idea of brushed control.


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  28. #28
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. jamann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gripdog7205 View Post
    Iíd like to start with a high quality crawler/trail motor. I donít need go fast, just power and control. I like the idea of brushed control.


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    Brushless sensored will give you that. Mmp esc 2700kv trail master pro on 3s
    https://youtu.be/xvvdJHDjWE4

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  29. #29
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    Ordered Monster X and 1406 2850 kv crawler package. Receiver and servo as well. Truck should be here tomorrow. Thanks guys.


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  30. #30
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    Build started today. Transfer case and a full axle and a half. This kit is very nice. I can see how I will need some weight down low to really test the capabilities


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  31. #31
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. Greatscott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gripdog7205 View Post
    Build started today. Transfer case and a full axle and a half. This kit is very nice. I can see how I will need some weight down low to really test the capabilities


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    Portal weights are a good start to moving the weight down.
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    Coming together slowly but surely. RX will be here tomorrow.


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  33. #33
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. jamann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gripdog7205 View Post


    Coming together slowly but surely. RX will be here tomorrow.


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    Tasty looking

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  34. #34
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    I agree. I really wish companies wouldnít solder ends on wires, just include them. The motor leads are sooooo long. Gonna take care of that tomorrow.


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  35. #35
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. jamann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gripdog7205 View Post

    I agree. I really wish companies wouldnít solder ends on wires, just include them. The motor leads are sooooo long. Gonna take care of that tomorrow.


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    Dbl check before you cut.On some motors those wires are part of the windings.so cutting them can have bad results

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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamann View Post
    Dbl check before you cut.On some motors those wires are part of the windings.so cutting them can have bad results

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    Good point. Iíll check the literature


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  37. #37
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    Receiver and servo still to go. Iím impressed with Traxxas on this kit. Fun build.


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  38. #38
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    Calibrated, zeroed, tested. Loving this.


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  39. #39
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. jamann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gripdog7205 View Post

    Calibrated, zeroed, tested. Loving this.


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    Exellent

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  40. #40
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    May get some wireloom. Overall Iím happy. Please excuse the battery. It was just
    One used for setup. First lipo i ever bought. First and last venom.


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