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  1. #1
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    Why Traxxas should get back into the Nitro market (incredibly long read)

    A quick disclaimer: I am voice typing this so if there's anything horribly wrong or wrong words put into things it's the boys diapers fault I am not an illiterate person. Punctuation isn't great either but you should be able to get the message.

    think of the situation we have now no new Traxxas Nitro model has come out in 12 years and Traxxas is about to leave the Nitro market you can just tell. just think a company that has built its roots for the last 30 years on Nitro models leaving the Nitro market now because there is quote no demand. Imagine this Traxxas comes out with the new tra 4.2 engine and they put it in a bunch of 1/7 1/8 scale models. they come out with a basically super overpowered nitro 4 tec they come out with a Nitro ultimate desert racer that goes crazy speeds and has just incredible torque. They then get to sell all of the stuff over again because it is just a complete new technology they get to sell all of their glow plugs because the engine has bigger they get to sell their new easy start system they get to just sell air filter oil they get to sell Nitro fuel they get to the back into all these things that just make great amounts of money all over again.and if they came out with one new nitro engine they could put it into five different models or so and now you have a whole new fleet of nitro cars that is not only going to get one onepeople from other brands to consider Traxxas as they now have new Nitro products and 2 they get the Traxxas veterans from 15 to 20 years ago back into the hobby, who then go and buy all the stuff that they sold on eBay 5 years ago. Now think: they now have at least five new models that they can just sell and just knock the socks off at the competition because it is the easiest to use the most powerful in the most durable as most Traxxas products are, and they will likely be expensive because you know it's going to be new technology that kind of stuff. now once you release that it's like releasing the e-maxx Brushless and the two wheel drive xl5 rustler. The xl5 rustler signifies the current Traxxas Nitro products such as the nitro Rustler. now I think every single kid who wants a Traxxas car but doesn't have one signifies the eMaxx. the emacs is discontinued now but you get what I mean they want a xo1 or a xmax or a slash 4 by 4 VXL TSM oba, but they all start with a bandit rustler or stampede brushed. Think of the Nitro sales being the Bandit Rustler stampede. Now you have an army of 10 to 14 year olds want a ultimate Nitro desert racer or something like that and they just settle for the old nitro rustler something. it is overall just going to spike interest in Traxxas Nitro models. and as long as they can use them safely and that kind of thing you now have an army of kids who is going to turn 16 and get a job and then they're going to spend their money on a new Traxxas Nitro that's just the way it's going to be. It is incredible the amount of sales and overall satisfaction to customers they could provide just by investing in 1 nitro engine. What are your thoughts will they shouldn't a anyting else to add to this? please put your thoughts below as the more people who do this the more Traxxas will get the message. Thanks for making it this far and by all means support Traxxas in the quest of making a new nitro engine. Thanks Brothers!
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  2. #2
    RC Qualifier nebulous.cow's Avatar
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    Preach man. I am 1000% on board with you.

    Every time I go out to the bash sessions, there is me and MAYBE one other dude with a nitro rc car. What happened??? Last weekend in the AZ desert on our favorite expired MX track, maybe 15 guys came out, and only one other guy was running a nitro, he had some buggy. Seemed like a shy guy, so I didn't go up to him.

    My buddies and new friends saw me ripping the Revo 3.3 all day without any trouble, and I always preach the fun about nitro. In fact a couple of them asked to try it, and of course, I have to let them. Gotta be a nitro ambassador lol. Of course they love it! And they see how much fun I am having, shifting gears, hitting jumps, tumbling down the dunes, and not charging a single thing to play for the entire day.

    Like that alone sold me on nitro years ago. I used to fly RC, mainly FPV racing on a highly competitive level, as well as 3D helicopters. In case you car guys don't know, those are probably the 2 RC hobbies that are the most centered around batteries. You can't do those hobbies without top notch batteries, and they cost a ton. My electric 700 size helicopter ran 12s 5000mah 80C batteries. $300 per pack. FPV race drones typically used 6s 1300mah batteries, $50 a pop. I was sponsored by battery companies, so you bet I had boxes full of them. And a 2000W waterproof charging station I built myself at my work, and a Honda eu2000i generator. The costs were astronomical. The amount of batteries and mobile charging equipment you need to have a day of fun is insane. Oh and by the way, a 12s 5000mah helicopter lipo? Flies for 4 minutes. Four. Minutes. An insane 4 minutes, but still. FPV drone 6s 1300mah lipo? 2 minutes. Same deal, insane speed, but still.

    And you know what I need to drive the revo, both my nitro touring cars, and jato, all day? Only one gallon of nitro. To literally drive for the entire day. I would have to try very hard to shred through it all in one sitting. And I don't need to haul a generator around, a huge charger, tons of batteries and battery maintenance tools, none of that.

    I will have electric RC stuff in the future, and always will. But nothing comes even close to beating the fun I have with nitro stuff. I even had a nitro 700 size 3D helicopter, and it was a monster. If I cared about raw sheer power, then I would have quit nitro a decade ago.

    We mentioned this idea in some other thread a while ago, and yes, I think Traxxas is super due to release new nitro products. I think more than one engine is due for release. You are right, they would likely sell a ton more of even the old current nitro models with the release and excitement of new models. People will want to expand their collection. I think Traxxas needs maybe not to replace their nitro stuff, but update it. For example:

    -What about either a new small-block to replace the 3.3 entirely, or at least release a metal bodied carburetor with improved tuning? Make a 0.21 size small block, or a monster 0.18, or new internals for the 3.3 to make it a monster.
    -Like you said, an EZ-start 3.0 would be awesome. Something lighter, stronger, smarter, and maybe takes the electric motor off the model for lighter weight.
    -better reverse function. Something completely idiot-proof, steel geared, and don't put the stupid switch for it where everyone accidentally bumps it.
    -steel gears for trannys standard?? I can't believe they haven't done that stock yet in everything.
    -new exhaust pipes, maybe with help from top notch engine manuf.
    -new fuel blend?

    Of course like you said, they are due for some entirely new products as well.
    -big block motor, and a couple models to go with it. I myself would absolutely love to see a new onroad nitro, but I get that they don't sell. But seriously, a new nitro monster truck is due. And while they're at it, maybe make a 3 speed? An indestructible reverse with a smarter switch placement?
    -a new revo designed around big block? Maybe?
    -a nitro 4-tec 1/8?

    But you can't just tell Traxxas to make all these things, there is a massive amount of R&D that goes into making these things, as well as money and time. And if they make them, and then they don't sell, it's a huge loss to them. You have to understand that they are making what sells. And what sells more and more over the years is, quite frankly, RC cars for lazy hobbyists. People, and mainly kids new to the hobby, don't want to learn. They don't want to wrench, they don't want to research, they don't want to tune, they want a monster RC car that you plug the batteries in and then go destroy.

    That's not Traxxas's fault, that is what today's hobbyists usually want. Chargers that require no thinking, trucks that require no maintenance, and power so ridiculous that the vehicles can standing back flip. Nitro does none of those things.

    I worked in a hobbyshop that sells Traxxas stuff, and we had to stop selling the nitro RTRs a long time ago, because we didn't make money on them. It's terrible. We barely sold any fuel. So believe me, I've seen the numbers, I've seen how long things sit on a shelf, I've seen how much trouble it is. At least from a dealer perspective. Barely any customers came in asking about nitro anything. It's not that my shop couldn't get nitro stuff from Traxxas, it was just a loss to get it.

    I'm just like you man, I wish there was more nitro stuff coming into the market, but there just isn't, and it's because many hobbyists of today are lazy and can't figure out how to run it. The only other company that is still making nitro RTR's and actually developing new engines and stuff is Kyosho. I have a bunch of their kits, and they are great. Parts are hard to find, but I support them because they are taking the hobby the direction I want. I wish Traxxas would do this too.

    But you have to keep in mind that even if they release everything I said, it won't make it into every hobby shop. Not even close. All of the small ones like the one I worked at would look at the news and skip right over it. Not order any in. And that's just sad.

    I think Traxxas should do a poll on their social media and see how many people are actually interested, I think they would be surprised, but I think there are fewer people like you and me who enjoy nitro.

    If there was anything more I could do to promote your cause, I would do it. Come on Traxxas!

    Will be nice to read what the other nitro heads on here have to say about this. I hope the mods or whoever actually keeps an eye on this over at TRX see it or even better, chime in.

    -Mike

  3. #3
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    I agree with you Mike. Traxxas is a for-profit company so they have to determine if there is a profit to be made when developing a product and if the money is not there or it puts the retail cost out of their target market then it's a no-go.

    If not nitro then looking into gas-powered but HPI and Losi had catastrophes on their hands a few years ago. They advertised that it would run on normal gas, but then put "*" saying that you needed to run their special blend of oil at $15/bottle to be mixed with a gallon of gas. So now your price per gallon when from $2.50 (estimated at that time) to $17.50. Sure some savings but not a whole lot as a gallon of nitro was $25. And you had to tune it like a nitro and not your weed whip or lawnmower.

    Polls over social media may be helpful, but other companies have been burned (particularly automobile) where the general public says "Yeah, that's cool!" and they don't buy it (I'm thinking of the Prowler, PT Cruiser, HHR, SSR...).

    I would love to see more nitros and if they could make them a little quieter and worry less about tuning then they may take off. But in today's age of instant satisfaction it is the plug & play then put it away and don't worry about it.
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  4. #4
    RC Champion grizzly03's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nebulous.cow View Post
    ...what sells more and more over the years is, quite frankly, RC cars for lazy hobbyists. People, and mainly kids new to the hobby, don't want to learn. They don't want to wrench, they don't want to research, they don't want to tune, they want a monster RC car that you plug the batteries in and then go...that is what today's hobbyists usually want. Chargers that require no thinking, trucks that require no maintenance, and power so ridiculous that the vehicles can standing back flip...
    Quote Originally Posted by Double G View Post
    ...I would love to see more nitros and if they could make them a little quieter and worry less about tuning then they may take off. But in today's age of instant satisfaction it is the plug & play then put it away and don't worry about it.
    I agree with your statements nebulous.cow and Double G. It is a "need it/get it/have it" now society. World of computers with answers without thought. What's 2+2? Hold on let me check my phone. I would laugh if things like this were not true.

    A new nitro engine would be awesome! Even if it was offered as a Traxxas upgrade part! When they made their 2.5 it was a hit. Then it went to the 3.3 size.(IMO trying to keep up with picco .21,OS .18tm, and RB upgrade swaps everyone was doing without going BB). The downfall to the new 3.3 size was the carb. They designed it for the 2.5 and to save on R&D costs just installed it on the 3.3(smart financial decision for any company,because it still worked.) Hench, the reason the bigger carb mod works so well.

    The other option I would like to see is something like a Zenoah powered X-maxx. The modular design and size would make it a perfect candidate. I have been thinking of making one myself as a project.

  5. #5
    RC Qualifier nebulous.cow's Avatar
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    Good ideas. See that's why I question why they aren't doing some of these things, like the things Grizzly mentioned. Some of them, seem at least, like very low risk investments to test the market. Things that are cross compatible across a wide variety of models. Like a new carb. That's relatively inexpensive, and would bolt on to any 2.5 or 3.3 that millions of people already have.

    Or maybe even s nitro conversion kit for some later models would be cool like you said too.
    I'm a young guy, but even when I was a young kid, I could handle the delayed gratification of nitro. It seems though most rc people I meet like nitro when they see mine, but they wouldn't get their own. Or tell me of their nitro horror stories with their last nitro they had.
    It's like riding motorcycles. Someone always will come up to you to talk shop, then tell you how they or someone they know crashed. Like dude, I don't care lol thanks for being a downer.

    Sucks how today's consumer has become. Our hobby isn't the only one going this direction.

    -Mike

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by TruckerTucker View Post
    A quick disclaimer: I am voice typing this so if there's anything horribly wrong or wrong words put into things it's the boys diapers fault I am not an illiterate person.
    Lol I just realized it says 'boys diaper' not 'voice typer'. I hope whatever engine Traxxas comes out with next has better technology than this phone lol
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  7. #7
    RC Champion grizzly03's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TruckerTucker View Post
    Lol I just realized it says 'boys diaper' not 'voice typer'. I hope whatever engine Traxxas comes out with next has better technology than this phone lol
    Didn't even pay much attention, with the mention of voice typing. My brother texts the same way and some very strange and funny "computer generated words" have been sent.

  8. #8
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    I looked at the length of the op and was like wow, how long does it take to change a diaper that both his hands are tied up??

  9. #9
    RC Qualifier nebulous.cow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TruckerTucker View Post
    Lol I just realized it says 'boys diaper' not 'voice typer'. I hope whatever engine Traxxas comes out with next has better technology than this phone lol
    But what new "tech" is there for nitro engines? They inherently haven't changed in decades. They are all the same more or less. The only advancements are going faster, and tuning more easily. (which, with the "experience" Traxxas has making nitro cars, should be easy)

    Maybe a turbo plug chamber? A better clutch that can actually handle the power? Lol maybe an alternator to charge the rx pack? That'd be sweet lol

    -Mike

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by nebulous.cow View Post
    But what new "tech" is there for nitro engines? They inherently haven't changed in decades. They are all the same more or less. The only advancements are going faster, and tuning more easily. (which, with the "experience" Traxxas has making nitro cars, should be easy)

    Maybe a turbo plug chamber? A better clutch that can actually handle the power? Lol maybe an alternator to charge the rx pack? That'd be sweet lol

    -Mike
    That's the issue. Maybe leave the 3.3 and just reinforce everything else like the tranny, steel gears + u joints, like you said before, a full metal carb.
    And a self cleaning and oiling air filter lol
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  11. #11
    RC Qualifier nebulous.cow's Avatar
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    Dont get me wrong though, a good engine is a really valuable piece of equipment. I have an OS18CVR in my Classic Maxx, and it's literally over a decade old, with 20+ gallons on the stock piston and sleeve. Call me a liar, but it's true. Never seen a rebuild in it's life, and it still runs awesome. Tunes perfect, never leaks, no mechanical failures, survived a previous owner, survived all kinds of crashes and shocks... I would pay stupid amounts of money for more motors like that. If traxxas made THAT, imagine how few posts there would be confused and frustrated owners with a nitro motor.

    My new 3.3s have already leaked, had parts come unscrewed on the carb during use, tune very strangely, broke exhaust couplers without crashing, and come with random factory settings. Brand new. I knew what I was getting into with the 3.3 motors, and it's no big deal to us seasoned veterans - we can handle these quirks with relatively little confusion or frustration. But not everyone can.

    It would really make all of the nitro models better for everyone if they even made something more simple, like a 3.3 v2 or something. Just must not be worth the R&D...

    -Mike

  12. #12
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    I have to agree with all of the above.

    I have a 12+ year old JATO and it still run like a dream. I have one of the newer Jatos and a T-Maxx 3.3. They all run fantasticly. I do have a few electrics, but that's only to bash with the grandkids, but the battery prices, the charge time, let alone the run time, just can't beat the Nitro's.

    When ever I take them out, (live in suburbs) all the kids come out, all the adults who used to do RC come out.
    I once had a guy from another neighborhood drive over in his golf-cart to see all the ruckus cause he heard them Jato's whining and changing gears and no idea what it was. You'd never get the with the weee ween of an electric.

    My profile might say I've been a member for 12+ years, but that's only for the site and not running to the local shops which are now gone.

    There is a good bashing crew (of Nitros) out here in Western MD.

    I would buy a new model Nitro and still kick my self A LOT for not getting the XO1 when it was available.

    I just can't justify electric purchases with the battery prices & run times.

    Please consider refreshing and updating Nitro Traxxas.

  13. #13
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    I think there are a couple of considerations that as a business, they have to consider for their return on investment.

    1. As mentioned above a lot of new or younger users do not have the attention span nitro requires. You can throw the "instant gratification folks in this bucket.

    2. I would think the largest proportion of hobbyist may lack access to a suitable place to run a nitro. There are noise considerations, HOA's and probably local ordnance's that prohibit this. I am fortunate that I am in the country, with my own offroad track, my closest neighbor has a Slayer Pro , and the closest LHS has just put in an outdoor pavement road course, drag strip and still has the outdoor off-road track connected. Rally racing? (Shout out to John at bigdogrc.com, Great job!)

    3. I look at nitro as the top echelon of the hobby. Traxxas went a long way with nitro RTR, but you pretty much have to earn it. Without boards like this one, a newbie would struggle. As a 59 year old newb, I can attest to that. By reading all the threads you folks put out, it is like a graduate course to Nitro.
    Last edited by Slush; 05-22-2020 at 09:20 PM. Reason: content
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  14. #14
    RC Qualifier nebulous.cow's Avatar
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    And that's all most folks need right there - a little education.

    Nitro to me is the top dog, the final phase in the RC hobby as well. The most advanced way to do RC is nitro.
    And for sure it's not for everyone. Anyone who can handle a little education, cost of mistakes, and delayed gratification could come to love nitro though.

    You know what I think though is the biggest reason nitro should come back? (in general)
    The die-hard nitro guys are arguably some of the most set in their ways. If they don't lose interest in the hobby, odds are, they will continue to buy nitro kits, parts, fuel, and everything else.

    The return on their investment is the people they've already got hooked on nitro, and were from the very start, and will always be. Albeit a small crowd, but one that returns time and time again. Even now with the virus, you see how many folks are digging up their nitros and wanting to get them running again - I'm a perfect example. After lockdown, I bought 3 new nitro kits, a ton of fuel, and a bunch of parts.

    Unfortunately though, for Traxxas, I feel as though they would only be able to determine the real amount of buyers of new nitro products by just selling them and seeing what happens - not a favorable way to run a business. People like me would buy into it. But then again, I'm the weird guy at the hobby shop every time, digging through tattered boxes with faded labels on nitro parts...

    Although, consider say Kyosho for example. Their market is quite evenly divided between nitro and electric IMO, and they have a significant business interest in maintaining and bettering their nitro RTRs, kits, race kits, and engines. They just released the entire new KE series engines for small and big block RTRs, (within the past couple years) and they're up to date, great running, and are cheap. They have the resources and demand to keep their nitro section running. I just wish traxxas was in the same boat, but for such a mainstream manufacturer, they sell what people buy. Dummy electric RTRs.

    Slush I agree with you, nitro might as well be "Graduate level" RC haha.

    -Mike
    Last edited by nebulous.cow; 05-25-2020 at 11:54 PM.

  15. #15
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    But seriously, guys! What advancements do you want to see? A 4.3? A 3 speed? A 100+ mph 5 tec? Those are jokes �� but what do you want to see?
    I'm not afraid of my fellow man.

  16. #16
    RC Champion grizzly03's Avatar
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    I would like to see a new nitro engine with a new carb. Anywhere between .21 to .23 and I would be super happy.

  17. #17
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    I agree with Grizzly on the new carb. Maybe reverse engineer a Losi 3.4? lol
    And seriously, perhaps a trans clutch or stall converter. I have so many people that "say" they would get into nitro drag racing. The noise, the burn out and a solid predictable launch would go a long way to influencing people. The No-prep drag racing scene is one of the fastest growing segments that I ave seen lately.
    I did see a video of a 1/5 scale Mustang with Line Locks. It was electric, But food for thought. I am thinking of a servo that would horizontally push pins perpendicular to the engage the front wheels
    Slayer Pro, Slash VXL 4x4, Jato 3.3, Rustler 2.5

  18. #18
    RC Qualifier nebulous.cow's Avatar
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    Or maybe Traxxas could partner up with maybe OS or something for some new models?

    Do you guys know how awesome it would be if every TRX nitro available right now came stock with say an OS21 or similar? Even if they partnered up and made a budget 21TM, that'd be so epic. Takes little to no R&D unless they create a new budget traxxas compatible engine, and it works with every 3.3 compatible vehicle off the bat.

    Or include an OS carb from factory for the 3.3? Sounds like the things we want, for one, already exist, and two, are factory compatible upgrades. These parts are bolt on!

    I'm sure a business partnership like this is a ton of investment and work, but if you can't beat em, join em. I would have paid extra to get a revo or jato that came stock with an OS motor, that'd be epic. Obviously it's a big hurdle and still a big investment, but why not get the people on your side who have already solved every non user-related engine design flaw?

    For example, from my limited research and investigation, I have concluded that the Kyosho engine lineup is actually manufactured by Enya Engines, which many of you guys have never heard of, but they are big in nitro plane engines. Turns out they are actually big in car motors too, just under various re-brandings. Kyosho knows they don't have as much expertise as say Enya, so they struck up a deal, and make excellent RTR and race bred engines at great cost. Personally too, I would consider Enya on the same level as OS in terms of reliability and quality. They're both Japanese manufacturers, and have both been in the game for decades. So it comes as no surprise that the Kyosho engines tune super easy, just like OS.

    Seems that's how the winning nitro RTR companies are doing it, maybe that's food for thought for Traxxas.

    -Mike

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