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  1. #1
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    Traxxxas upgraded servo ,need help with better one

    Upgraded servo so so ,has some issues
    And better one to use thank you
    Kevin nj

  2. #2
    RC Champion Acidic01's Avatar
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    2985x. Or promodeler servo


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  3. #3
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    I use a JX 46kg, with the 7749 Traxxas adapter for 1/10 size servos.

    https://traxxas.com/products/parts/7749

    http://www.jx-servo.com/en/Product/F.../fmcs/460.html

  4. #4
    RC Champion grizzly03's Avatar
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    Good reviews on Promodeler servos. Flux Capacitor loves his in his X-Maxx.

  5. #5
    RC Qualifier Rocketzx1's Avatar
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    I have a few JX servos in my Traxxas trucks, rustler VXL and Erevo 2.0. The rustler has a 20kg servo, more than enough for it and super quick. I put a spare 22kg JX servo in the erevo and works fine, I think the 22kg is about 305oz-in. Seems to be working pay so far, but Im going to grab a JX 35kg servo Friday for quicker response and more power.


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  6. #6
    RC Qualifier Flux Capacitor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grizzly03 View Post
    Good reviews on Promodeler servos. Flux Capacitor loves his in his X-Maxx.
    It is true that I have a very high admiration for the DS630BLHV and if it lasts as long as my other ProModeler servos, I would be highly elated. I hope John keeps his outfit a small operation because every time a product starts getting good reviews and more and more people want them, the business has to expand and it becomes harder for the owner to keep a watchful eye on the production process.

    That is what happens with every business that starts out small. The product is impeccable and pristine in the beginning and then an explosion in popularity causes the operation to have to expand and then the quality starts to drop off because the owner can't keep that watchful eye on every part of the production process anymore.

    If he stays small, his servos will remain big and I think he has the correct approach in how to build the worlds best servos. If he doesn't change what he is doing, I believe he wins in the long run to tell you the truth.
    Last edited by Flux Capacitor; 07-08-2020 at 11:20 AM. Reason: Fixed.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flux Capacitor View Post
    It is true that I have a very high admiration for the DS630BLHV and if it lasts as long as my other ProModeler servos, I would be highly elated. I hope John keeps his outfit a small operation because every time a product starts getting good reviews and more and more people want them, the business has to expand and it becomes harder for the owner to keep a watchful eye on the production process.

    That is what happens with every business that starts out small. The product is impeccable and pristine in the beginning and then an explosion in popularity causes the operation to have to expand and then the quality starts to drop off because the owner can't keep that watchful eye on every part of the production process anymore.

    If he stays small, his servos will remain big and I think he has the correct approach in how to build the worlds best servos. If he doesn't change what he is doing, I believe he wins in the long run to tell you the truth.
    Agree 100%. He has been fantastic to work with and I'm more than happy to keep a small business alive. The only problem is the quality is so good that I can't be a frequent customer. (Unless I buy more RC's which is not in the budget.)
    The Super Derecho

  8. #8
    RC Champion Acidic01's Avatar
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    I know I'll be going to promodeler once I need a new servo.

    something to be said on item that is NOT engineered to fail, so that you have to buy another after so many years.

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  9. #9
    RC Qualifier Flux Capacitor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double G View Post
    Agree 100%. He has been fantastic to work with and I'm more than happy to keep a small business alive. The only problem is the quality is so good that I can't be a frequent customer. (Unless I buy more RC's which is not in the budget.)
    Hard to believe that hobby RC servos are just a secondary job for ProModeler, they have a contract that they first have to take care of before focusing their attention on the hobby servos. Their other servo job is a tall order from what I understand.
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  10. #10
    RC Champion grizzly03's Avatar
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    Flux, Have you tested out TSM with that servo? I might end up with that servo instead of getting another DS470BLHV.

  11. #11
    RC Qualifier Flux Capacitor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grizzly03 View Post
    Flux, Have you tested out TSM with that servo? I might end up with that servo instead of getting another DS470BLHV.
    I have.

    I've been running the TSM at 25%~50% full time with zero issues on the DS630BLHV ProModeler.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flux Capacitor View Post
    I have.

    I've been running the TSM at 25%~50% full time with zero issues on the DS630BLHV ProModeler.
    This is a very good notice.

  13. #13
    RC Champion grizzly03's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flux Capacitor View Post
    I have.

    I've been running the TSM at 25%~50% full time with zero issues on the DS630BLHV ProModeler.
    Thank you.

  14. #14
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    Thank you for your help

  15. #15
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    I threw the metal gear set from the 2085x in the standard servo.

    But I certainly understand there are better servos if the investment is worth it for you.

    Happy bashing.


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    RC Turnbuckle Jr. rag6's Avatar
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    Don't rely on manufacturers specs for servos. They are usually very overrated... This guy did a whole bunch of servos, search his channel. Both of these servos did no better than 60% of what the manufacturers were claiming. Let the buyer beware....
    https://youtu.be/hv4t_-8QAkM


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  17. #17
    RC Champion grizzly03's Avatar
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    I don't like his testing method, only for comparing one servo to the next. The torque is at said length from the splines, not farther out on a servo arm. The farther away the less torque its going to have, exactly what his tests show.

    What's the standard for measuring? Servo arm angle also plays a part in torque.
    Last edited by grizzly03; 07-12-2020 at 10:46 PM.

  18. #18
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. rag6's Avatar
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    It's the right testing method.
    It's one inch from the splines. He explains this in the vid when he built this rig. Oz/inch.

    Other servos hit their specs with no problem on the same test?



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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by rag6 View Post
    Don't rely on manufacturers specs for servos. They are usually very overrated... This guy did a whole bunch of servos, search his channel. Both of these servos did no better than 60% of what the manufacturers were claiming. Let the buyer beware....
    https://youtu.be/hv4t_-8QAkM


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    Good video and test.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by rag6 View Post
    Don't rely on manufacturers specs for servos. They are usually very overrated... This guy did a whole bunch of servos, search his channel. Both of these servos did no better than 60% of what the manufacturers were claiming. Let the buyer beware....
    https://youtu.be/hv4t_-8QAkM


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    I've watched a few of his videos and I like that it shows the voltage applied as well as the torque and amps the servos are pulling when maxed out.

    Quote Originally Posted by grizzly03 View Post
    I don't like his testing method, only for comparing one servo to the next. The torque is at said length from the splines, not farther out on a servo arm. The farther away the less torque its going to have, exactly what his tests show.

    What's the standard for measuring? Servo arm angle also plays a part in torque.
    As rag6 mentioned and from what I've been reading, the rating is the torque at one inch. Again, ounce per inch. Regardless if it was tested at one tenth inch, one inch or two inches, the results should be about the same.
    The Super Derecho

  21. #21
    RC Champion grizzly03's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double G View Post
    As rag6 mentioned and from what I've been reading, the rating is the torque at one inch. Again, ounce per inch. Regardless if it was tested at one tenth inch, one inch or two inches, the results should be about the same.
    That's what I was trying to say. Sorry, I have a tough time explaining my thoughts to words.

    To see how accurate his testing method is, why not try repeatability at different lengths.
    Example: servo @ 6v has 100oz-in. Test @1/2",@1",@2" on his setup.
    Should get 200oz-in@1/2",100oz-in@1",50oz-in@2".
    If the 1/2" is twice the 2" findings and the 1/2" is four times the 2" findings (or twice the 1") then it would be repeatable.
    If the method for testing is repeatable the torque found would be the same at any arm length.
    If the test showed "say 3x" the torque at 1/2" vs what was found at 1" I would say that's not repeatability nor accurate.

    That's why the testing he shows at least for me is a good comparison between servos and not against a manufacturers claim.

    Without knowing how a manufacturer conducts it testing is the hard part. Do they test at what length? Test at different locations in servo travel? Dyno type of test where it's tested through a set amount of travel? You only read of specifications, not about an industry standard way of testing.

  22. #22
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. rag6's Avatar
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    Ounces per inch is the testing method all manufacturers use for their claims. He is using that method for these tests. He is using the industry standard. I can't explain that any differently.

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  23. #23
    RC Champion grizzly03's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rag6 View Post
    Ounces per inch is the testing method all manufacturers use for their claims. He is using that method for these tests. He is using the industry standard. I can't explain that any differently.
    I'm going to disagree. How is his method the industry standard? The only thing I know is the 1" servo arm. In the picture below it shows two different testing examples. Because of the different angles there is a difference in servo arm leverage. Each method will give a different result.



    I'm not disputing with you that he is getting an ounces per inch test result. I am saying if the industry standard is like example B how can his example A results be more accurate. RcReview's setup is like example A. I don't see how his method is more accurate. This is why I said, His tests are a good comparison of strength and stall amps between servos. Not an accurate test to disprove a manufacturer.

    In one of his videos he tested a promodeler DS470 servo @ 8.4v and got an average of 384oz. That's almost 100oz difference compared to it's specs. Why is there such a difference? Is RcReview's "industry standard" testing method more accurate? Because Promodeler makes more than hobby servos, I would lean more toward their specs as being accurate.

  24. #24
    RC Qualifier Flux Capacitor's Avatar
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    Man oh man, what did I miss. A lot has been going on here since I posted.

    In light of all those tests whether they are manufacturer related or some genius on YouTube, the thing that has to be taken into consideration is how the gear posts are mounted in the servo assembly. You can have all the torque in the world you want, but if your gear posts are riding in just plastic or the aluminum case itself or knock-off bushings, it is game over once you start egg-shaping those gear post slots.

    It will lead to accelerated gear wear and ProModeler has proven that by being the only manufacturer that uses their method of preventing premature gear wear. So regardless of what their claims are for torque; I am at least satisfied knowing that the very thing my gears rotate on, are supported by something stronger than just aluminum.

    So squabbling over torque claims will continue among manufacturers and privatized studies that overlook the more important aspects of a servo.


    Directly from ProModeler site:

    Then there was the time accounting wondered why we use pricey Swiss-machined bronze inserts (we press them into the case for reinforcement). The way it works, under the kind of loads this servo may encounter, the aluminum pockets where the steel shafts fit are pounded so hard sometimes they go egg-shape (because steel is harder than aluminum). Since these are the shafts upon which the gears themselves rotate, once that happens gear wear accelerates because the gear-mesh has gone to crap (meaning a new set of gears won't solve the problem because the case itself is deformed).

    So engineering addressed the problem by reinforcing the aluminum bores with SAE 660 bronze bushings, which nobody in the hobby-business does to their aluminum servos. Granted, accounting had a point - the bushings 'are' a little expensive (and we use 3 in each servo) but it's only because they're very small parts (and thus, more difficult to handle which makes them more costly).

    Ultimately, their complaint boiled down to, "Our competitors fit shafts directly into the aluminum bores!" to which we politely observed, that's because we don't build hobby-grade servos! So basically, we told them to go pound sand - but very politely because they do the paychecks!
    Last edited by Flux Capacitor; 07-13-2020 at 11:00 PM. Reason: Fixed
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  25. #25
    RC Champion Acidic01's Avatar
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    For the posted vid on servo test I skimmed it. And didn't see a posted explanation of his testing rig. I may of missed it.

    But in reading the comments here. The vid had a testing arm longer than 1 inch. Unless someone is testing to normal industry standard and replicate that same test set up. ( Which I do not know if there is one or how to do this, or what industry standard testing of servos is)

    The vid posters results can be different than manufacturing test. A simple error in bench set up will skew results And the small difference from what a yt poster does and industry standard tests do , and or marketing swank says.... Can all vary.

    Who here ever gets The tested mpg on their 1:1 vehicles that manufacturer states? My truck confuser says I get 24mpg. My mpg tracking app says 13mpg avg 15mpg tops. I trust the basic math vs the onboard display. But epa says I get 21 to 25 mpg as does confuser in it...... So is my basic math wrong? Unless a company is transparent in their specs and testing data. Take it all with a grain of salt....


    I do think promolder servos are the best we can get for what we are doing, and at that price point. ( I do not own ones) Not built in to have failure modes so it needs repalced. Or a under powdered servo put into a car so your forced to upgrade to get the performance a rc needs.. aka plastic gears on #tock servis and so on....

    Pre engineered failure points are Normally added in for all physical products. Some things are economy of scale. Others are so you buy more of said item or things for it....


    Promodeler builds servos to where you can trust your life on them imho Which I'm guessing what he does as his normal day job. It's enginerding to it's best. And helping the rc world get mil spec / space spec or whatever he does normally quality servos at attainable cost.

    It's the little details that lets you know a company cares.





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  26. #26
    RC Qualifier Flux Capacitor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acidic01 View Post
    Promodeler builds servos to where you can trust your life on them imho Which I'm guessing what he does as his normal day job. It's enginerding to it's best. And helping the rc world get mil spec / space spec or whatever he does normally quality servos at attainable cost.

    It's the little details that lets you know a company cares.
    That was my point more or less. ProModeler doesn't cut corners by using cheap parts to make their accounting ledger stay on the plus side.

    I'm still having a very difficult time understanding how ProModeler keeps its hobby servos in an affordable price range. The servos I got from them over the last four years would have been sold by other manufactures by a mark up of at least 33% more with the materials used that ProModeler is not afraid to be transparent about.

    So it isn't just the little details like you mention, it is also the honesty that ProModeler promotes by showing they are not afraid to buy the best materials and somehow manage to implement it into an affordable package that performs like a Ferrari when you bought it at the price of a Fiat.

    It is as though an average hobby RC guy like us woke up one day and said: "I've had enough of these other junk servos on the market and I'm going to do something about it." Almost like he is sharing his wealth because he knows the pain of failed servo after failed servo after failed servo........etc.

    It takes money to make money; but with this particular business model put forth by ProModeler, they are doing something unprecedented that I have never seen at these price points and they deserve it.

    Honestly, the price I got my DS630BLHV at versus its performance, the servo easily performs at the high end prices I have paid for HiTec and Savox servos with Titanium gears and ProModeler uses good old fashion steel gears. Only difference is, I haven't had a ProModeler servo failure to this day and the other high end ones I mentioned are on their way to a landfill because they failed within a years time.
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  27. #27
    RC Champion grizzly03's Avatar
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    Here's more food for thought: Why couldn't the industry standard be based on the electric motor itself?

    If you know the volts and amps you can figure out watts. Using the watts you can figure out the torque rating of the motor. Now that you know the torque rating of the motor, you can calculate the overall torque of a given servo by its gear ratio.

    FWIW All the industrial motors I've dealt with (440v 30Hp compactor motor,277v 1/3Hp conveyor motor,simple 110v 1/2Hp well pump motor) are all rated by the Hp.
    Last edited by grizzly03; 07-14-2020 at 10:30 AM.

  28. #28
    RC Qualifier Flux Capacitor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grizzly03 View Post
    Here's more food for thought: Why couldn't the industry standard be based on the electric motor itself?

    If you know the volts and amps you can figure out watts. Using the watts you can figure out the torque rating of the motor. Now that you know the torque rating of the motor, you can calculate the overall torque of a given servo by its gear ratio.
    Some of those gears in the servo never make a full revolution. If the spline ran directly off the motor shaft, I see how it could be practical to calculate using your formula but the direction of power is transferred at least three times before it ever reaches the output spline.

    I read somewhere that every time there is a change of direction in transfer of power, you lose at least 8% of your torque or power and there is still the fact that some of the gears never make a full revolution in the servo. Some rotate 90 degrees and some 180.
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  29. #29
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    This has been one of the best reads I have ever seen on servos and has a ton of info including the video's.

    https://www.rchelicopterfun.com/rc-servos.html

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rain Dawg View Post
    This has been one of the best reads I have ever seen on servos and has a ton of info including the video's.

    https://www.rchelicopterfun.com/rc-servos.html
    Excellent link mate, I will save it in my favourites.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juanmacine View Post
    Excellent link mate, I will save it in my favourites.
    No problem, it's in my favorites also.

  32. #32
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. rag6's Avatar
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    If his method is so off, why do some of the servos nail their claims?

    I do understand now your concern about the angle of the push rod. Just now in an unscientific experiment, I duct taped a 5lb WT to a 2ft long wooden stake. Stood it straight up on my digital bathroom scale and checked WT. 5.2lbs
    I leaned it over to about a 35 angle. I left the weight leaning against the wall. It registered the same weight at an angle.

    I know it wasn't a controlled test, but I was thinking I might see some difference to explain why many servos only pull 60% of their claims.

    I think I just may start emailing companies to ask how do they determine the ratings they put on their boxes....

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  33. #33
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. rag6's Avatar
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    Here is what I mean. Holmes hobbies test was spot on in their claim. I don't think there is any reason to underrate your products... But I can think of a few rea$on$ to overrate your servo...
    https://youtu.be/trgpe-b84PM

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  34. #34
    RC Champion grizzly03's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rag6 View Post
    If his method is so off, why do some of the servos nail their claims?
    That's really the question. Could the ones hitting the specs actually be under rated? (It's just one possibility). Could his "self made" scale be off. How is his scale getting a reading.

    Quote Originally Posted by rag6 View Post
    I do understand now your concern about the angle of the push rod. Just now in an unscientific experiment, I duct taped a 5lb WT to a 2ft long wooden stake. Stood it straight up on my digital bathroom scale and checked WT. 5.2lbs
    I leaned it over to about a 35 angle. I left the weight leaning against the wall. It registered the same weight at an angle.

    I know it wasn't a controlled test, but I was thinking I might see some difference to explain why many servos only pull 60% of their claims.
    Unfortunately your experiment won't work. The only problem with trying it that way is "gravity". A 5lb (or any weight) is still going to weight the same. It wouldn't matter if it's directly above or 10 feet out. It's like holding that 5lb weight next to your body, then try holding it out at arms length. It feels heavier but that weight is still 5lbs. Weight is weight. We're trying to figure out force. Below is picture of what i'm talking about. In the third example the farther out you move the weight the heavier it would be at the arrow. (It acts like a pry bar)


    Quote Originally Posted by rag6 View Post
    I think I just may start emailing companies to ask how do they determine the ratings they put on their boxes....
    That would probable be the best answer if they will give out that info.

    Why not use a calibrated scale instead of making one? (A tension scale would be what you want, not spring scale.) It could be set up like in the below picture. This way the scale could be fastened anywhere and the servo arm could be at 90. Plus you could test the accuracy quickly by going out to 2". And/or try at 1/2". The results should be close to each other at any distance. Example: @1/2" 500oz-in, @1" 250oz-in, @2" 125oz-in. Then take the average for the test results.



    Some more thoughts: Instead of the rod he is using why not put a scale in its place. Both scales would have to be the same if it's an accurate setup.

  35. #35
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. rag6's Avatar
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    Just rewatched his setup vid for his test machine. That servo is pulling up not pushing down. Don't know weather it matters...
    Is that a tension scale?
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  36. #36
    RC Champion grizzly03's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rag6 View Post
    Here is what I mean. Holmes hobbies test was spot on in their claim. I don't think there is any reason to underrate your products... But I can think of a few rea$on$ to overrate your servo...
    https://youtu.be/trgpe-b84PM
    If you watch it closely why is the scale part at the bottom moving? It seems the lower the servo rating the lower the test results. They higher the rating they go higher than what they are rated at.

  37. #37
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. rag6's Avatar
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    He just did the stock arrma 7kg servo. It repeatedly nailed the 7kg claim

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  38. #38
    RC Champion grizzly03's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rag6 View Post
    Just rewatched his setup vid for his test machine. That servo is pulling up not pushing down. Don't know weather it matters...
    Is that a tension scale?
    Good point! It shouldn't matter if it was pulling or pushing.

  39. #39
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. rag6's Avatar
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    https://youtu.be/9fyMff***Cw
    This is the arrma servo
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  40. #40
    RC Champion grizzly03's Avatar
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    I really would be great info if a manufacturer shared how they rate their servos. Without knowing how it's all a guess. You could have two different servos rated the same but built different. Bushing vs bearings. Higher torque motor with higher gearing vs Lower torque motor with lower gearing.
    The same as a drive motor in the Rc's. Two rc's with different motors and gearing could go the same speed.


    Link doesn't work.

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