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  1. #1
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    Which aftermarket motor?

    Guys. I run 4600kv 1406 castle motor on 3s with 9/56 gearing. I cant gear this thing down any lower. This motor gets HOT. Dont own a temp gun but it's hot enough that you cant touch it for more than a second or two. I heard all sorts of good things about this motor but now i think i should have got something bigger. Any advice?

  2. #2
    RC Qualifier Calebs0615's Avatar
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    4600kv is a little high in my opinion. Get something with less then 3000kv and you wont be disappointed.

    Id stick with castle systems as they are sworn by.

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  3. #3
    RC Qualifier GotNoRice's Avatar
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    You could potentially gear even lower by swapping out the ring and pinion gears in the differentials with the gears from the brushed version.

    But yeah, 4600kv is too high unless you're running a 2wd or only using 2s LiPo IMO.

  4. #4
    RC Qualifier RCWilly's Avatar
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    3s overheats the motor pretty fast, not to say 4600kv is very a high kv rating. It is more for 2wd trucks and onroad cars.
    If you have 3s, you can go as low as a 2400kv motor without it feeling too slow (can always gear it up too).
    Last edited by RCWilly; 09-08-2020 at 11:49 PM.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by GotNoRice View Post
    You could potentially gear even lower by swapping out the ring and pinion gears in the differentials with the gears from the brushed version.

    But yeah, 4600kv is too high unless you're running a 2wd or only using 2s LiPo IMO.
    If thats true, then how do i know if i have a brushed diff?

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  6. #6
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    IF the truck originally came with a brushed motor then it has the brushed diff. You can count the teeth of the ring and pinion; brushless is around 13/38 if I recall. Brushed is 12/47.
    Last edited by Double G; 09-09-2020 at 08:55 AM.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double G View Post
    IF the truck originally came with a brushed motor then it has the brushed diff. You can count the teeth of the ring and pinion; brushless is around 13/38 if I recall. Brushed is 12/47.
    It did but now i have to but 2 new diffs?

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  8. #8
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    Do fans actually work?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by MysterE View Post
    Do fans actually work?
    Yes

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    RC Qualifier Calebs0615's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MysterE View Post
    Do fans actually work?
    They work pretty well for what you pay to get one. I used a non traxxas brand fan and heat sink on my motor and it died after the second bashing or so.. But it dropped my motor temperature about 15 degrees Fahrenheit.

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  11. #11
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    Castle Creations 2400kv on 3S RULES!!
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    Slash 4x4 Ultimate 2400kv

  12. #12
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    Would it be easier on the motor if i dropped to 2s and geared back up? Or same same?

  13. #13
    RC Qualifier RCWilly's Avatar
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    2s will help, but you should still keep the current gearing to prevent overheating.
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  14. #14
    RC Qualifier Calebs0615's Avatar
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    Eh it depends on how high your thinking of gearing. Its going to make heat once your geared so high anyways. But as for buying a 2s battery and gearing up, itd probably be cheaper than another motor or esc. Depending on what your looking at i guess.

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  15. #15
    RC Qualifier RCWilly's Avatar
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    Keep in mind that when you switch to 2s, you also lose torque, so it might not do that well when geared up high. You can probably gear it up a bit... gear it up little by little, and monitor the motor temps.
    Everyday's a gift, thus now is called the present.

  16. #16
    RC Qualifier GotNoRice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LargeCar1999 View Post
    It did but now i have to but 2 new diffs?
    If your truck came stock with the brushed system (XL5 + Titan 12t), then you already have the differentials from the brushed version. You can't gear the diffs any lower. Keep the ones you already have.

    If your truck came stock with the brushless system (VXL-3S + 3500kv), then you have the brushless differentials, which are geared higher. You could swap to the differentials from the brushed version to gear lower.

    It's not a change most people would bother making but if you literally want the lowest gearing possible, that would help achieve it. It sounds like you already have the brushed differentials though.

    Drop to 2s first. Leave your gearing the same. IF your temperatures are good, then gear up in tiny increments until you've reached an acceptable compromise of temperature and performance.

    If you get a new motor, IMO focus more on the size of the motor and less on the KV of the motor. Get a motor that is at least 3660 can size IMO (36mm width, 60mm length). That's about one centimeter longer than your 1406 4600kv motor (3650). Which ESC are you running? If your ESC can handle it you could go even larger. The motor in the MAXX and the Hoss 4x4 for example, is a 3670 motor (36mm width, 70mm length).

  17. #17
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. El Sob's Avatar
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    Let me add my $0.02! For me, the 2400kv motor is the perfect motor for the Slash 4x4! I have been running the 2400kv for years and it is still my favorite ♡
    Member of the 10,000 + posts club! Here to help!

  18. #18
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    Im running the sidewinder 8th so it can handle pretty much anything within reason up to 6s. Is that 3670 traxxas motor worth the cost?

  19. #19
    RC Qualifier GotNoRice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MysterE View Post
    Im running the sidewinder 8th so it can handle pretty much anything within reason up to 6s. Is that 3670 traxxas motor worth the cost?
    Not really... It's a fantastic motor, but it's about the most expensive motor of that size/type that you could possibly purchase.

    3670 2400kv motor from the Maxx/Hoss:
    https://traxxas.com/products/parts/3461
    Again, great motor, but $130? That's kind of crazy.

    3670 2400kv motor from Castle:
    https://www.castlecreations.com/en/c...ft-060-0067-00
    Another great motor, very similar to the Traxxas 2400kv motor. $105 is better but still very expensive.

    Those would be the go-to options if you want zero risk and have money to burn, but there are many other options that help put the cost into perspective:

    3674 motors (Longer than the Maxx/Hoss motor):
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/283921924491 2250kv
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/233271952058 2450kv
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/133076245946 2200kv

    3670 motors (Same size as Maxx/Hoss motor):
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/283988377527 2150kv
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/154075282717 2850kv
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/284001690539 2650kv

    4074 motors (Longer and wider than the Maxx/Hoss motor. Same size as the 1/8th scale E-Revo motor):
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/183924177836 2250kv
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/182241271211 2200kv

  20. #20
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    Awesome! Thanks for the advice guys.

  21. #21
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. El Sob's Avatar
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    Castle Creations offers a free one year replacement warranty on their products. Their customer service is on par with Traxxas. What kind of support do the cheap motors offer?
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  22. #22
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    I guess you just gotta decide if you wanna risk it. 50 bucks for a no warranty special or more than double that for a guaranteed good product with customer service.

  23. #23
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    You buy quality, you cry once. You don't, you cry twice

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  24. #24
    RC Qualifier RCWilly's Avatar
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    I would also say go with Castle or a reputable brand, since they have better product support, and last much longer than the cheap motor ESC combos. With the cheap combos, it is all based on luck, and it often takes many tries to find a good one, which will often end up costing much more than buying from a reputable company.
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  25. #25
    RC Qualifier GotNoRice's Avatar
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    I used to be far more loyal to Castle. Unfortunately castle's customer service didn't do anything for me when the shaft snapped on my 1410 2400kv 3670 motor after landing a jump, turning it into an expensive paper-weight. It had been longer than a year, so no warranty, and they don't even sell replacement shaft kits anymore.

    I wasn't going to pay $100+ for a replacement, so I got a 3674 motor on eBay for $20. It was bigger than the Castle 1410 and came with a 5mm shaft. I've beat the heck out of it on 4s and so far I have not been able to find any way in which it's inferior to the Castle motor that it replaced.

    I'm not trying to knock castle. They make good products. Buying a Motor+ESC as a combo usually gives you a better price than buying either individually. I really do love their ESCs and all I run now are castle ESCs. A motor is a much simpler part however. Not nearly as much risk using a cheaper motor as there would be running a cheaper ESC. If we were talking about a 10-25% price premium, it would be one thing. But when you can get an equivalent motor for half or even one-third the cost or less, the price just becomes a really tough pill to swallow.

    You want a warranty? Buy 2, or even 3 motors. Still come out ahead on price. Those spare motors can be your "warranty", and it will last longer than one year.

    Quote Originally Posted by RCWilly View Post
    I would also say go with Castle or a reputable brand, since they have better product support, and last much longer than the cheap motor ESC combos. With the cheap combos, it is all based on luck, and it often takes many tries to find a good one, which will often end up costing much more than buying from a reputable company.
    OP already has a Sidewinder 8th, a very potent ESC for a Slash 4x4 that can handle even more power than the Mamba X. I don't think he needs a combo.
    Last edited by GotNoRice; 09-10-2020 at 12:59 PM.

  26. #26
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    Yeah just looking for a motor. Never tried a "budget" motor before. Gotta say, the prices are tempting....

    Has anyone used the traxxas power up program? Could trade in my old vxl3s 2 pole system for something better...

  27. #27
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. Dcuda69's Avatar
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    I have run all these motors with a $60 HW WP SC8. Left to right: The original Traxxas 3500 that came in my Ultimate, the Traxxas/Castle Funny car 2400kv, Kershaw Designs 2700kv and RC Gearshop 2150kv. I didn't pay much over $40 ea for those motors(excluding the OE 3500) I still have all of them,they still all function perfectly(including an additional Kershaw 2700kv) So I have roughly $220 in 4 motors and an esc.The 3500 lives in my 2wd Rustler and the 2400,2 2700s and the 2150 take turns in the Ultimate. You really don't have to spend a fortune if you're just bashing around the house

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  28. #28
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    Ok. So I installed a vxl3s with the velinion 3500kv motor, which if I'm not wrong comes standard in the slash. I had this setup in a 2wd stamped so I figured i might as well give it try. I left the gearing at 9/56. Running on 3s it gets just as hot as my castle system

    Whats the deal? This "should" be ok with this low gearing right?

    Maybe I should go buy a temp gun before buying a new bigger motor.
    200 degrees F is max safe zone?

  29. #29
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    And before you ask, I've checked all my diffs, bearings and driveshafts for any binding already. She's all rolling smooth.

  30. #30
    RC Qualifier GotNoRice's Avatar
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    I would try to keep it below 170F, below 160F if possible. Occasionally going above that for short periods of time probably won't hurt much, but above 170F the epoxy that holds everything together inside will potentially start to break down, and going even higher, your magnets will eventually begin to demagnetize.

    It's always been normal for the Velineon system to run warm on 3s. Ultimately the solution is to get a bigger motor. Switching up your gearing and motor KV isn't going to allow you to run a small motor cool on 3s. Lower gearing puts less stress on the motor, but increases the RPMs, which also generates heat. It's a lose-lose situation until you get a bigger motor.
    Last edited by GotNoRice; 09-12-2020 at 02:32 PM.

  31. #31
    RC Qualifier Calebs0615's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MysterE View Post
    Ok. So I installed a vxl3s with the velinion 3500kv motor, which if I'm not wrong comes standard in the slash. I had this setup in a 2wd stamped so I figured i might as well give it try. I left the gearing at 9/56. Running on 3s it gets just as hot as my castle system

    Whats the deal? This "should" be ok with this low gearing right?

    Maybe I should go buy a temp gun before buying a new bigger motor.
    200 degrees F is max safe zone?
    I would for sure go get a temp gun. Its a life saver for real. You can literally see temperature differences just by gearing 1 tooth up or down. Its a very very good investment.

    Cause you never know. You might be thinking its about 200 when its only 150.

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  32. #32
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. Dcuda69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MysterE View Post
    Ok. So I installed a vxl3s with the velinion 3500kv motor, which if I'm not wrong comes standard in the slash. I had this setup in a 2wd stamped so I figured i might as well give it try. I left the gearing at 9/56. Running on 3s it gets just as hot as my castle system

    Whats the deal? This "should" be ok with this low gearing right?

    Maybe I should go buy a temp gun before buying a new bigger motor.
    200 degrees F is max safe zone?
    The 3500 does come standard in the Slash. It is meant to be a 2s type of power in a track setting not really meant as a 3s basher type power. You have it geared about as low as possible so at that point you're better off with a 2s and gear it up a bit. To bash successfully on 3s I would just look at a different motor and or motor/esc. Look for a bigger can and lower KV. That 2400 in my post above works just fine with the VXL esc on 3s(I ran mine like that for a while) Good luck!
    Slash 4x4 Ult 2150kv
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  33. #33
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    I think for general bashing, a cheap no name motor is fine. The esc is most important. Don't skimp on the esc. That's where you can't afford to buy cheap. I run a large variety of motors, and unless you go sensored (racing or crawling) the cheap motors perform fine and last just as long as a quality motor ( as long as you don't over heat it, cheaper motors can't take as much heat). One other thing I've noticed, similar size motors with similar size kv, you can just notice a difference between a quality motor and a no name, but for bashing, it'll be negligible.

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  34. #34
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    Definitely get a temp gun, just a cheap Harbour Freight one is all you need, $12 bucks or so I think. Temperatures are very deceiving when just using your fingers to tell, I mean like 50-75 degrees deceiving. I used to use a sealer for decorative concrete that needed to be applied at 75-85 degrees and thought I could tell by hand more or less. It would never turn out so I got a temp gun and turns out I was applying at 160! I think they should come standard for Traxxas RTR trucks with the 3500, but that's just me.

  35. #35
    RC Qualifier Calebs0615's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyHog View Post
    Definitely get a temp gun, just a cheap Harbour Freight one is all you need, $12 bucks or so I think. Temperatures are very deceiving when just using your fingers to tell, I mean like 50-75 degrees deceiving. I used to use a sealer for decorative concrete that needed to be applied at 75-85 degrees and thought I could tell by hand more or less. It would never turn out so I got a temp gun and turns out I was applying at 160! I think they should come standard for Traxxas RTR trucks with the 3500, but that's just me.
    My local harbor freight only had a 38$ one. And I "couldnt use a coupon with Ares products." Lol Oh well. Im happy i have it now.

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  36. #36
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    Ok so after all this I've decided to just buy a new motor. I have the sidewinder 8th which is awesome so I might aswell get a motor to match. Now the size...

    Do you all think a 3670 is good for 3s or 4s? Or is a 3674 the way to go? Or do i just go ahead and buy a 40xx? Will 40xx fit in the lcg slash chassis?

    I'm goig to risk it and buy an amazon special so if anyone has an exact one they've tried and like I'd love a link.

    Thanks.

  37. #37
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    Oh and whats the actual advantage of longer/wider motors? Is it just the size of the magnets creating more torque? Better heat dissipation maybe?

  38. #38
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. Dcuda69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MysterE View Post
    Ok so after all this I've decided to just buy a new motor. I have the sidewinder 8th which is awesome so I might aswell get a motor to match. Now the size...

    Do you all think a 3670 is good for 3s or 4s? Or is a 3674 the way to go? Or do i just go ahead and buy a 40xx? Will 40xx fit in the lcg slash chassis?

    I'm goig to risk it and buy an amazon special so if anyone has an exact one they've tried and like I'd love a link.

    Thanks.
    The 4074 motors fit fine in the LCG....move the receiver up front and there's plenty of room. The 1/8th scale stuff with 4s will make your truck heavy. Axles,diffs,slipper,motor mount,etc will likely need upgrades if you haven't already done them. I've run that 2400,2700 and 2150(in my post above) all on 4s. My personal favorite is the 3674 2700kv geared 20/50 on 3s. Plenty of torque and speed without a ton of weight/heat. Good luck! .My 4074 2150kv installed in my LCG:

    Slash 4x4 Ult 2150kv
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    Ford GT vxl

  39. #39
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    I'm liking the looks of this one. Surpass are a "decent" brand in brushed crawler morors...

  40. #40
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. Dcuda69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MysterE View Post
    I'm liking the looks of this one. Surpass are a "decent" brand in brushed crawler morors...
    No clue at all about those motors. Personally, if I was going with a 3670/74 can motor I'd look somewhere between 2400 and 2800kv w/5mm shaft. Again...just my 2 cents. Others may have different ideas for ya. If you go with that Surpass motor, please post up your thoughts. We all like to hear about different options.Good luck!!
    Slash 4x4 Ult 2150kv
    Rustler vxl
    Ford GT vxl

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