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Thread: Blown up XL-5??

  1. #1
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    Blown up XL-5??

    Hi all,
    In all honestly, I really don't know what happened but it seems that my XL-5 broke. It won't turn on anymore. It was not running. I was just reorganising some cable work from the lights.

    The battery is fine. When pressing the on-button I see a VERY LOW glowing led blinking quite rapidly. This is NOT the same amount of brightness you'll see when it is operating normally. You have to cover the esc with your hand to see the light.

    What could have happened here and is there a way to fix it?

    Thanks for your help.

    Regards
    Ruud

  2. #2
    RC Champion RCWilly's Avatar
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    Have you tried to recalibrate the ESC?
    Everyday's a gift, thus now is called the present.

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    Quote Originally Posted by _underground_ View Post
    Hi all,
    In all honestly, I really don't know what happened but it seems that my XL-5 broke. It won't turn on anymore. It was not running. I was just reorganising some cable work from the lights.
    Lets start here...

    Were you unplugging and unplugging things on the receiver (RX)? If so, check and make sure the steering servo is plugged into one of the first two slots, and that the ESC is plugged into the third slot of the RX.
    Submarine Qualified, Chief Inducted, Navy Retired

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    Hi there Greatscott!
    All cables in the receiver were kept in place. No changes there. After noticing the problem I removed all cables from the transmitter and also disconnected the thick wires leading to the motor. Still the save behaviour. A VERY low blinking inside the xl5. Reconnecting ch1/ch3 makes n9 difference.

    Maybe you can tell me what the led on the xl5 does when nothing is connected to it? So no motor and also not a receiver? 8 have no spare xl5 so can not test it and observe differences. Maybe you can?

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    Well RCWilly,
    Nothing is reacting. No light on the receiver. No normal led on the esc. Strange isn't it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by _underground_ View Post
    Well RCWilly,
    Nothing is reacting. No light on the receiver. No normal led on the esc. Strange isn't it?
    There's definitely something wrong with the ESC if the receiver is not getting power... what happened before this (rock crawling, trail running, etc), anything unusual during that run? Also, was the steering servo under high load the last time you ran it?
    Everyday's a gift, thus now is called the present.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RCWilly View Post
    There's definitely something wrong with the ESC if the receiver is not getting power... what happened before this (rock crawling, trail running, etc), anything unusual during that run? Also, was the steering servo under high load the last time you ran it?
    Nothing from that at all. The car was not outside at all. Just on the table. No smell, no loose ends of cables. As mentioned, I was re-alligning the cablework from the lightkit. All the lights (blinker, brake light etc) have been tested many times that day. Every time the XL-5 was turned off and the battery disconnected....

    I do not have many spare parts to evaluate and pinpoint the issue better, but when I read the tip from Greatscott, I thought I might get more insight when I connect the original Traxxas receiver instead of my Carson 14 channel receiver. Maybe the XL-5 would recognise his next of kin and wake up again but nothing happened. The LOW blinking light even didn't come up. After switching back to the Carson receiver even there the LOW blinking light had stopped, so in my opinion it is time to arrange a tiny funeral, right?

    I do not expect to be able to make use of warrenty can I?

    When all is going fine, tomorrow my new ESC will arrive so we know if more damage is done to the receiver, light kit, switches etc.

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    The new ESC arrived 1 day earlier. I tested it right away and I am very happy. All things work as they used to do!
    Thanks guys for your support.

    Sometimes things just break...

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    Quote Originally Posted by _underground_ View Post
    The new ESC arrived 1 day earlier. I tested it right away and I am very happy. All things work as they used to do!
    Thanks guys for your support.

    Sometimes things just break...
    Glad it's fixed!
    Everyday's a gift, thus now is called the present.

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    Glad for you.
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    Hi all,

    guess what? Last weekend I experienced exactly the same thing as a couple of months ago. Haven't been out, no driving etc. Just added some rigs on the car. When switching the power on, nothing happened at all. Huh? Not good for my heart I can tell you that!

    Anybody some experience with this very strange behaviour? THE ONLY THING I can think of is that I misuse the small black/red-cable for the wireless module. I use them to power up some led lights or winch through proportional channel 3. That's it. This never gave any problems.

    Any ideas??

    Thx

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    Whats the new esc you got? Another xl5? What kind of servo do you have? Could be you are overloading the internal bec. To test this theory, you would need to independently power your reciever either with an external bec, or 4 AA batteries, or something thats 6v dc (not rectified). Disconnect the red wire from your esc to the reciever, but leave in the ground and the signal wire. If it works then, then you can use it with an external bec, but honestly if its an xl5, I'd replace it with a hobbywing 1080. Much better driving experience over the rtr esc.

    Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

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    Hi Steve,
    it was another XL5-HV. All other stuff in the car is also still original traxxas material.
    Your advice to move towards HW is very welcome. I might get my XL5 repaired/replaced for free because it is only 2,5 months old so no harm there financially. But when the new one breaks again, I will follow your advice.

    I am also planning to let my winch run 'directly' from the battery and not through the ESC/receiver. I read that that is wise to do because of the large power consumption the winch might use. And you don't want that running through your receiver, agree?

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    Quote Originally Posted by _underground_ View Post
    Hi Steve,
    it was another XL5-HV. All other stuff in the car is also still original traxxas material.
    Your advice to move towards HW is very welcome. I might get my XL5 repaired/replaced for free because it is only 2,5 months old so no harm there financially. But when the new one breaks again, I will follow your advice.

    I am also planning to let my winch run 'directly' from the battery and not through the ESC/receiver. I read that that is wise to do because of the large power consumption the winch might use. And you don't want that running through your receiver, agree?
    I'd also highly suggest that you go with a hw 1080 if you are unable to get the xl5 warrantied. The 1080 has a much stronger bec which should prevent any problems, and it is cheaper than a xl5 anyway.

  15. #15
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    yes go with aftermarket traxxas makes great drivetrains but laughable electronics stuck 10 years in the past consider getting a flysky gt5 remote combo too

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    Thx all!

    As you all adviced, the 2 XL5's are gone now and the HW 1080 has arrived. Very cool, but.... gentleman.... I have a VERY noob question. Hope you can help me out again:

    As you know the XL5 had a tiny connector for connecting the traxxas app-module. I misused this connector to also power up (through my Carsson 14 channel remote) 6 leds on the roof, my light module, and also the winch. This went all fine before when I still had the XL5.

    Well... there is of course no extra cable on the HW1080. What do you advise? Only split the battery cable? Using a bec is also often advised but I have no experience on that yet. There is a lot of discussions about using a bec. Do I really need it?

    A lot of questions, huh?

    Thx guys for any help!!

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    The XL5 tiny connector was connected (inside the XL5) directly to the battery. Means its voltage was the same as your battery (2S: 7,4 V; 3S: 11,1 V). So if you had running system connected to this tiny wire with your XL5, then yes, make a battery connector split and connect it the same way as before.

    Every ESC (XL5; HW1080) has internal BEC, which converts main battery voltage to smaller (7,4V or 6 V), which is used by electronic (servos, receiver, some LED lights etc...). Your HW 1080 BEC can be set to give both BEC voltages, safe for TRX-4 is 6V.
    Let the HW 1080 internal BEC power servos and use battery to powes your additional apliences...

  18. #18
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    You can solder a JST cable on the side of the battery poles, on your 1080.

    EDIT: Nevermind that, I did that to the Axe ESC that actually has poles
    On the 1080, I soldered them directly to the inside of the battery plug, coming out from the back (if that picture makes sense to you)
    Last edited by xagoras; 05-06-2021 at 03:14 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xagoras View Post
    On the 1080, I soldered them directly to the inside of the battery plug, coming out from the back (if that picture makes sense to you)
    I have a fancy imagination

    Bottomline of the advise is to split up the battery cables.
    Because of blowing up two XL5's already still a bit reluctant (and surprised) that the JST has the same out- and throughput as directly from the battery. I have Traxxas TRX2960X Traxxas Series 5 NiMH 7C 8.4V 5000mAh by the way.

    Because a lot is going on inside my scaler I am maybe overworried to blow up things. You know.... I am not the "trial and error" guy. There is a lot of money involved.

    Would it help when I make a diagram of all the stuff that is inside the car or can I just trust and rely on the HW1080. I know I should

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by stehnak View Post
    Let the HW 1080 internal BEC power servos and use battery to powes your additional apliences...
    Dear friend. See also my comment to xagoras. Would it help to make a diagram of all the stuff that is inside my scaler?
    I have a Carsson 14 Channel TX/RX on which I am able to do the following:

    CH1 - Steering
    CH2 - Driving
    CH3 - Prop channel for the winch
    CH4 - Free
    CH5 - Relais for interrupting the winch (use per accident while driving)
    CH6 - Diff-lock back
    CH7 - Diff-lock front
    CH8 - Toggle high & low Speed / Gear
    CH9 - Relais to switch on/off the light module. (No blinkers when crawling...)
    CH10 - 4 channel Carsson Switch to control:
    4 lights on roof
    2 LEDs light in bumperl
    2 LEDs on rack where winch is mounted in
    1 LED on the top-back of the car
    CH11 - 14 Free

  21. #21
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    So you did not have any external BEC while runing XL-5 + Carsson 14 Channel TX/RX with all that stuff around?
    XL-5 has internal BEC spec only: 6V/1A (6 Watts)
    HW 1080 internal BEC is setable 6 or 7,4 V / 3A (18/22,2 Watts)

    See 3A vs 1A means it HW 1080 can safely power "3 times bigger load".

    You can draw connections, but main thing is to divide loads to:
    - the ones which are powered directly from the battery (and only controlled with Rx channels = BEC power)
    - the ones which are powered and controlled directly from the BEC and check here its maximal load. This load should not exceed those 3A (or 3A x 6V = 18 Watts).


    For your understanding: internal BEC provides power to the Rx which then distribute it via all its channels.
    Last edited by stehnak; 05-07-2021 at 03:08 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stehnak View Post
    So you did not have any external BEC while runing XL-5 + Carsson 14 Channel TX/RX with all that stuff around?


    I am a bit ashamed now stehnak and "Learned the hard way just by doing" all the time. Knowledge comes with the years they say... I am in the RC for almost 1 year now...

    When I knew all the things before I would have done MANY things different but that is not the situation right now and that is why I am VERY carefull now and listen to guys like you. That is why I am on the forum and upgraded my TX/RX and my ESC.

    Certainly when you want to build a dream scaler car full of tempting extra's and not just only driving and steering....


    Still I think making a diagram with all the cables might be handy. You will understand there are plenty of them.

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    No problem mate .
    I am in RC for only 6 months, but have 20 years power electronic background... and of course a lot of measuring devices at home which I used to play with my TRX-4 Blazer.
    Draw a diagram, it might help also to you when you want to chanhe something in the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stehnak View Post
    For your understanding: internal BEC provides power to the Rx which then distribute it via all its channels.
    Ok, I understand now that the internal BEC can only deal with a maximum of around 18W.
    But I can not relate this with this comment from you:

    <QUOTE>- the ones which are powered directly from the battery (and only controlled with Rx channels = BEC power</QUOTE>

    shouldn't that point to Battery power instead of BEC power??

    I appreciate your help very much and am sorry for all these "noob" questions. Just want to learn from you.

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    Most things you are plugging into your reciever can only take 6v or so. So you cant directly power it from your battery. Sounds like you got alot going on, even with the 1080 esc, you should be using an external bec. 3a may sound like alot compared to the stock 1a, but its still not much. My crawlers have 8a internal becs, and not alot plugged into them. So check out the Caslte Creations becs. Use that to power your reciever thus powering everything plugged into it. And if you ever upgrade your steering servo, get a direct powered one (has 2 leads, one for the reciever for signal and one for the battery for power). Even on some of my bashers that have cheaper escs, I use an external bec. Even though the esc's bec can handle the load in my case, taking the load of the internal bec lowers the temp of the esc.

    Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by _underground_ View Post
    Ok, I understand now that the internal BEC can only deal with a maximum of around 18W.
    But I can not relate this with this comment from you:

    <QUOTE>- the ones which are powered directly from the battery (and only controlled with Rx channels = BEC power</QUOTE>

    shouldn't that point to Battery power instead of BEC power??

    I appreciate your help very much and am sorry for all these "noob" questions. Just want to learn from you.
    It is correctly written:
    example 1: Traxxas LED module. It is connected to that tiny plug (JST connector type) when you have XL-5. Power from that tiny JST plug is "direct power" from the battery. It had nothing to do with BEC.


    Note: yes there is that 1 additional red wire with servo connector which goes to the Rx, but it is just for the safety (it prevents battery deep discharge while it remains connected to the LED module and car is even switcheg off).

    example 2: ESC. ESC electronics is powered by BEC (internal/external), but power to the motor goes directly from the battery vie ESC which only modulates voltage level (from 0 to maximum battery can provide).

    In comparison:
    Standard servo: servo is connected only to the Rx channel, means all the power for it goes via/from the Rx which is powered by BEC.
    ______________
    Not to be it so easy, as Steve g wrote: there are direct powered servos. Which means that it:
    - takes power for movement directly from the battery
    - takes tiny little power for internal electronics from Rx = BEC.

    Another example for this power split is sound module (Sense Innovations ESS-DUAL):


    see?
    Iit has red JST connector, for powering speakers and black 3 wire "servo" connector which is connected to the Rx and again is only for sound controlling purposes.

    __________________________________________________ ____________

    If you have a lot of devices connected with only 3 wires to the Rx = it gets all the power from the BEC, and have high torque servo, than like Steve g wrote even 3A might not to be enough and you should use external BEC with higher amperage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve g View Post
    Most things you are plugging into your reciever can only take 6v or so. So you cant directly power it from your battery. Sounds like you got alot going on, even with the 1080 esc, you should be using an external bec.
    Ok Steve, so when I gonna buy the Castle Creation BEC and plug it in the Carsson RX, what about the red cable coming from the HW1080 that also goes into the RX together with the black and white one? Should I "remove" it?

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    We were both commenting on different posts 'stehnak' haha...
    Thanks a lot pal. This is very helpfull.

    It is just complex for me. Certainly when let's say CH2 needs to go activate the steering servo PLUS needs to inform my light module to put on the blinkers. Both need to be powered

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    Quote Originally Posted by _underground_ View Post
    Ok Steve, so when I gonna buy the Castle Creation BEC and plug it in the Carsson RX, what about the red cable coming from the HW1080 that also goes into the RX together with the black and white one? Should I "remove" it?
    Yes, running two BEC in parallel is not safe:
    https://rogershobbycenter.com/wiring-a-bec

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    Quote Originally Posted by _underground_ View Post
    We were both commenting on different posts 'stehnak' haha...
    Thanks a lot pal. This is very helpfull.

    It is just complex for me. Certainly when let's say CH2 needs to go activate the steering servo PLUS needs to inform my light module to put on the blinkers. Both need to be powered
    Correct, the only difference is: servo needs much more power then LED light stuff.
    Yes, tell me about complexity
    https://forums.traxxas.com/showthrea...=1#post6583444

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    Checked the thread... I understand your issues VERY well!! Very nice car BTW...

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    FYI, I just ordered the Castle BEC. To be continued...

  33. #33
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    For the BEC, there are several ways to wire it, but this is the most practical configuration (IMHO):
    - shift servos (diff lock, 2-speed) can run off of the ESC's BEC at 6V (their max voltage)
    - receiver can be powered by ESC's BEC at 6V (max voltage)
    - steering servo can run off of the UBEC at 7.4V or higher (only if you steering servo can take it)
    - and if the lights and sound module can take higher voltage, you can plug them in the BEC as well. (if not, just plug it back into the receiver to be powered by the ESC's BEC)


    Last edited by RCWilly; 05-07-2021 at 12:00 PM.
    Everyday's a gift, thus now is called the present.

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    Is not there missing black wires (ground from both BECs) interconnection?

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    Hi guys,
    just great you posted additional info. I was working on my scheme of my Defender:



    I still need to check RCWilly's scheme too.... My Carson power hub was first powered by the JST-connector from the XL5-HV. Now in my new scheme it is directly connected to the battery but I am not sure about this.... Shouldn't it be better behind the new Castle BEC?

    I am really not good at this
    Sorry for the unproffesional scheme. Never studied for how to create a decent one, but sure helps me.
    Last edited by _underground_; 05-09-2021 at 12:54 PM.

  36. #36
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    Just wanna say again that it is still only on paper and not yet connected physically. Previously, so with the xl5 and without the Castle BEC, it was all running. Propably on the edge (or far beyond) of the max of the xl5's internal BEC, as I now learned, but it was running... Not sure about the next step with the hw1080 and the Castle BEC. Appreciate all your help before. I will get there. It just takes time and hopefully without the magic smoke...

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    I can not find what Carson power hub exactly do. Is it only power distributor?
    It should be most probbaly connected directly to the battery (so it gets and distribute power directly from battery), not "behind the BEC".
    Post here a link to manual of the Carson power hub.

    Scheme looks quite OK.

    You must just understand (and I think you already do) what 3 wires from Rx are used for:
    - red is (+) power supply (this "power" is delivered from BEC connected to Rx) for connected devices (diff. lock, gear servos, etc) in case this device is connected ONLY with this 3 wires
    Note: compare it to your winch, which has connection from Rx and Carrson power hub. So I believe winch motor is powered directly from the battery (via Carrson power hub) and not from Rx (= not from BEC). BEC powers here only winch ESC (maybe not even that, since I do not know its internal connection).

    - white (sometimes yellow) is signal wire

    - black is common ground for power supply and signal


    The question is if you want to use both BECs (internal within 1080 (set to 6VDC) and external Castle BEC (possibly set to 7,4 VDC for stearing servo more speed and torque - if your servo can handle 7,4 VDC)) as RCWilly wrote.
    or
    just Castle BEC set to 6 VDC for everything...
    Simple rule: 2 BECs can not run in parralel = their RED wires can not be interconnected anywhere.

    I would not complicate it, and use only one external BEC "for everything which gets power directly from Rx". In this case you just not connect red wire from 1080 internal BEC to the Rx as mentioned here: https://rogershobbycenter.com/wiring-a-bec

    Miloslav.

  38. #38
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    Dear Miloslav,
    again (!!!) thans for the info. Here's a link to the power dispenser:

    https://shop.carson-modelsport.com/c...503062-en.html

    The technical manual can be found there too:

    https://cdn.simba-dickie-group.de/do...er_A6_Kor2.pdf

    It is quite handy to use and is now located in the waterproof box of the former original Traxxas receiver, together with the Carson 4-switch module:

    https://shop.carson-modelsport.com/c...503061-en.html

    I will go for your proposal and start tomorrow. I will disconnect the red wire from the HW1080 internal BEC and instead plugin the Castle BEC in the RX. I read on the card of the Castle BEC that it is set to 5.1V.

    My friend also extra secured his electrical scheme with an automatic 5A fuse right after the battery. Any thoughts on that? Fuse and holder are ordered btw but always good to hear others opinion
    Last edited by _underground_; 05-12-2021 at 01:50 PM.

  39. #39
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    U R welcome.
    Thanks for the links, it is clear to me now. And it is always good that power dispenser has some protection / "fuse".

    Castle BEC: 5,1 V might be its default setting, but it can be set 4.8 až 9.0 V (or similar).
    If possible (buy or borrow programmer), change it to 6 V since with this voltage also your steering servo (and all the devices connected only to Rx) will be powered. You get with 5,1 V less steering servo speed and also less torque... which you need once your rig gets some more weight.


    Additional fuse: more fuses = better protection, but also more complicated circuits and not easy to find errors.
    To be honest, I do not like those "auto-resseting fuses" and I use normal ("1 trip only") glass fuse for protection of all my connected extra stuff (additional 4 channel receiver, LED module, sound module, ESC fan, motor fan, termo-meters and battery voltmeter). As you see I do not extra protect BEC (I use external 5A Traxxas BEC module) = do not extra protect all devices connected to BEC, since I trust Traxxas recommendation how it should be "plug and play" connected - and there is no extra fuse mentioned in this external BEC manual.

    I do not like self-reseting fuse, because it auto-resets ;-) ... simply once any fuse trips, error must be found and fixed. Errors (short circuits) in electrical circuits are (usually) not "auto-fixed"... Different story is protection against overloading. But your electrical system (devices) should be designed so, that overload should not happen. That is why more powerfull 10 A external BEC was recommended to you.

    Note:
    Some ESC, BEC might have internal short circuit protection which limits output current in case of short circuit in the motor or any connected devices, so it might be tricky to find correct fuse value.


    Fuse right after the battery (excluding wire to ESC) is correct place to put it in and its value (1A / 3,15 A / 5 A / 6,3A / 8 A / 10 A etc...) depends on the max current your connected devices needs at once. This can be measured (the best way) or calculated (if you know characteristic of all connected devices).
    5 A sounds like a good value to start with, but might be too small because also your steering servo (which do you use ?) gets power via this fuse. 5A fuse at your 8.4V Ni-Mh gives 42 Watts max available power through this fuse.
    Your BEC can provide max 6 V (or 5,1) x 10 A = 60 (51) W, but it will be in real less - depending mainly on the steering servo used.
    Your winch will need xy Watts / Amps (should be written in its datasheet), but is already protected with fuse inside the power hub.

    The worst case scenario (max power you need via this fuse) is: car stuck + winch in operation + steering servo in action + both diff. lock servos activated.
    Those LED modules, LEDs, switch modules consume "nothing" in comparison to those two "beasts".

    Miloš.
    Last edited by stehnak; 05-13-2021 at 04:31 AM.

  40. #40
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    Again.... thx for all this info! All is really usefull for me and hopefully many other noobies on this forum.

    The question about the steering servo is simple to answer: The 'out of the box' base trx-servo that came with the car.
    I learned about the many advises to upgrade that one soon but for now it is 'ok'. My car doesn't need to be a real cliff hanger or basher or whatever. Just drive around in a nice forrest. Actually, I think I enjoy the look and feel and all the possible switchsettings on my TX more than doing all kind of kinky maneuvers....

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