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  1. #1
    RC Racer TwinTurboV8's Avatar
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    Gearing with 3.8 belted trenchers

    So I had previously made a post about my belted 3.8 trenchers being too heavy for my ERevo and since they donít ballon, I canít control the car in the air. Does this have something to do with my gearing? I run the stock 15/54 gearing and sometimes 20/46 for speed runs. Do I need to gear up or down to be able to perform backflips in the air with the trenchers? If I can find out how to do this Iím going to go back to the belted trenchers because the current setup I have with stock Talon EXTs in the back and cheap Amazon wheels up front is kinda ugly, even though it performs well and I just looked at a chart olds97_lss had made and it showed that the belted trenchers are lighter than the stock Talon EXTs.



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  2. #2
    RC Qualifier corneileous's Avatar
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    Is your TSM turned off? Iíve heard that by having the Traxxas stability management turned on, it effects that. But then again, Iíve never heard anything about a tireís inability to balloon has anything to do with controlling the car while in midairÖ


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  3. #3
    RC Racer TwinTurboV8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by corneileous View Post
    Is your TSM turned off? Iíve heard that by having the Traxxas stability management turned on, it effects that. But then again, Iíve never heard anything about a tireís inability to balloon has anything to do with controlling the car while in midairÖ


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    I always run with TSM off since I have a single high torque Amazon servo. I never really ran with TSM anyway though.


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  4. #4
    RC Qualifier corneileous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwinTurboV8 View Post
    I always run with TSM off since I have a single high torque Amazon servo. I never really ran with TSM anyway though.


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    I guess Iím really not understanding what an aftermarket steering servo would have to do with the Traxxas stability management when all that TSM does itís just kind of act like a traction control device to where it tries to ďhelpĒ with the carís traction.

    This may be a silly question but do you have the Traxxas link on your radio and do you have it Bluetoothed to your phone with the Traxxas app? The only reason I ask is because I found out that you can assign that multi function knob that comes pre-set for the TSM to whatever you want so are you sure your TSM is turned off? Other than that, if your TSM is in fact turned off or if youíve never reassigned that multi function knob to anything else that I donít know what else would cause you to not be able to control your car when itís in the air. Maybe somebody else will respond who may know the answer.


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  5. #5
    RC Racer TwinTurboV8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by corneileous View Post
    I guess Iím really not understanding what an aftermarket steering servo would have to do with the Traxxas stability management when all that TSM does itís just kind of act like a traction control device to where it tries to ďhelpĒ with the carís traction.

    This may be a silly question but do you have the Traxxas link on your radio and do you have it Bluetoothed to your phone with the Traxxas app? The only reason I ask is because I found out that you can assign that multi function knob that comes pre-set for the TSM to whatever you want so are you sure your TSM is turned off? Other than that, if your TSM is in fact turned off or if youíve never reassigned that multi function knob to anything else that I donít know what else would cause you to not be able to control your car when itís in the air. Maybe somebody else will respond who may know the answer.


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    Yeah I donít know why I mentioned what servo I use but thatís besides the point.

    I do use the app and I have the multifunction knob set to TSM and itís all the down over at 0.


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  6. #6
    RC Qualifier corneileous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwinTurboV8 View Post
    Yeah I donít know why I mentioned what servo I use but thatís besides the point.

    I do use the app and I have the multifunction knob set to TSM and itís all the down over at 0.


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    So when you run your trenchers, throttling up or braking in mid air doesnít change the front dip or rear dip of the car in the air? Iím assuming everything was fine before with the stock talon EXTs?


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  7. #7
    RC Racer TwinTurboV8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by corneileous View Post
    So when you run your trenchers, throttling up or braking in mid air doesnít change the front dip or rear dip of the car in the air? Iím assuming everything was fine before with the stock talon EXTs?


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    Exactly.


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  8. #8
    RC Champion Acidic01's Avatar
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    Belted tires will limit any kind of back flipping, and reduce the in air handling.

    Ever since I ran kevlar wrapped tires,. Unless the jump is made just right I can. Not backflip.

    Same on my xmaxx.

    Ballooning tires, will give more centrifugal force for doing backflips and change car nose up or down mid air easier.

    Doing belted, or kevlar wrapping tired will reduce ballooning and the rotational inertia. Car will handle differently.

    Stiffer diff fluid. Say 200 to 500k may get some of this back.

    Otherwise I think a more powerful motor would be best option.

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  9. #9
    RC Racer TwinTurboV8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acidic01 View Post
    Belted tires will limit any kind of back flipping, and reduce the in air handling.

    Ever since I ran kevlar wrapped tires,. Unless the jump is made just right I can. Not backflip.

    Same on my xmaxx.

    Ballooning tires, will give more centrifugal force for doing backflips and change car nose up or down mid air easier.

    Doing belted, or kevlar wrapping tired will reduce ballooning and the rotational inertia. Car will handle differently.

    Stiffer diff fluid. Say 200 to 500k may get some of this back.

    Otherwise I think a more powerful motor would be best option.

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    I tried running 1 million weight center diff fluid and that didnít help, then tried packing in silicone ear plugs, and that still didnít help. So I guess Iím gonna have to stick with my current setup I have now unless I get a more powerful motor.

    I do want to use my trenchers, but everytime I would run them, not doing speed runs, I would always get screwed and break something. Ever since I put the stock tires back on itís been running like a top without a problem. And Iím jumping it and doing backflips like itís nothing.

    I also want to look better, so thatís why I started a thread asking about lightweight tires.

    What Iím getting out of this itís really all about ballooning, so do you think the Arrma dboots 6s backflips or Pro-line badlands MX38s be a good choice for wheels and tires?

    I would love to go with a more powerful motor and ESC, but I like using the Traxxas app and itís pretty far out of my budget.


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  10. #10
    RC Champion grizzly03's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwinTurboV8 View Post
    ...I just looked at a chart olds97_lss had made and it showed that the belted trenchers are lighter than the stock Talon EXTs.
    I don't see how? The belted Trenchers 3.8" are taller and wider than the stock EXT's. I'm surprised you didn't need to gear down because of the more than little difference in size and weight.


    Why did you take out the stock 20million fluid out of the center diff?
    As you go lighter you get more of a one wheel peel rather than all four tires.

  11. #11
    RC Racer TwinTurboV8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grizzly03 View Post
    I don't see how? The belted Trenchers 3.8" are taller and wider than the stock EXT's. I'm surprised you didn't need to gear down because of the more than little difference in size and weight.


    Why did you take out the stock 20million fluid out of the center diff?
    As you go lighter you get more of a one wheel peel rather than all four tires.
    I went lighter because the gasket on my center diff ripped and the oil went everywhere in my transmission. When I went to the hobby shop to get 20 million weight fluid the guy there said that would be too much and recommended 1 million weight.

    Though now my center diff is packed with silicone earplugs and is nice and tight.


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  12. #12
    RC Qualifier corneileous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grizzly03 View Post
    I don't see how? The belted Trenchers 3.8" are taller and wider than the stock EXT's. I'm surprised you didn't need to gear down because of the more than little difference in size and weight.


    Why did you take out the stock 20million fluid out of the center diff?
    As you go lighter you get more of a one wheel peel rather than all four tires.
    I guess I never really thought about that but if you need a center differential to pretty much work like there is no center differential at all
    then whatís the purpose of having it in the first place if you basically need the truck to be able to spin all four wheels evenly to control it in the air? Or is that just what the trade-off is, having to pick and choose between being able to do the stunt flips and all that stuff or, being able to control the front and the rear bite of your tires for better traction in turns and while accelerating?


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  13. #13
    RC Qualifier corneileous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwinTurboV8 View Post
    I went lighter because the gasket on my center diff ripped and the oil went everywhere in my transmission. When I went to the hobby shop to get 20 million weight fluid the guy there said that would be too much and recommended 1 million weight.

    Though now my center diff is packed with silicone earplugs and is nice and tight.


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    Thatís weird, how can he say that 2 million weight is too much when thatís how the truck comes from the factory?....LOL.


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  14. #14
    RC Racer TwinTurboV8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by corneileous View Post
    Thatís weird, how can he say that 2 million weight is too much when thatís how the truck comes from the factory?....LOL.


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    Beats me. Once I put in the 1 million weight oil and started driving I was like ďoh no why did I listen to him.Ē Definitely gonna be more mindful of what I need next time.


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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by corneileous View Post
    I guess I’m really not understanding what an aftermarket steering servo would have to do with the Traxxas stability management when all that TSM does it’s just kind of act like a traction control device to where it tries to “help” with the car’s traction.

    This may be a silly question but do you have the Traxxas link on your radio and do you have it Bluetoothed to your phone with the Traxxas app? The only reason I ask is because I found out that you can assign that multi function knob that comes pre-set for the TSM to whatever you want so are you sure your TSM is turned off? Other than that, if your TSM is in fact turned off or if you’ve never reassigned that multi function knob to anything else that I don’t know what else would cause you to not be able to control your car when it’s in the air. Maybe somebody else will respond who may know the answer.


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    As far as the servo goes, the tsm apparently does affect it. I have a single savox servo and was having some really strange steering issues after having the truck in training mode for the kids. Forgot to turn it off tsm. After asking on here, I was told to turn off tsm and that fixed my steering issues instantly.

  16. #16
    RC Champion Acidic01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwinTurboV8 View Post
    I went lighter because the gasket on my center diff ripped and the oil went everywhere in my transmission. When I went to the hobby shop to get 20 million weight fluid the guy there said that would be too much and recommended 1 million weight.

    Though now my center diff is packed with silicone earplugs and is nice and tight.


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    Your lhs guy didn't know what he was talking about as 20mil diff oil is stock for center diff.


    I have not tried this on my erevo2 yet. But on my xmaxx I went 500k diff oil front a rear. I really like how it handles. More wheelie on demand,. Power sliding on grass. And so on, really pepped it up.

    Once I do my full tear down of the erevo was going to put in 200k or 500k diff oil and see how it handles.

    I would think it thicker diff fluid in front / rear would help with back flips. I try to avoid back flips as I tend to break things more often doing that. More when at beach at making sand ramp just right. My normal bought ramps don't have the right angle for back flips. But can do a front flip. Slamming on the breaks in air.





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  17. #17
    RC Racer TwinTurboV8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acidic01 View Post
    Your lhs guy didn't know what he was talking about as 20mil diff oil is stock for center diff.


    I have not tried this on my erevo2 yet. But on my xmaxx I went 500k diff oil front a rear. I really like how it handles. More wheelie on demand,. Power sliding on grass. And so on, really pepped it up.

    Once I do my full tear down of the erevo was going to put in 200k or 500k diff oil and see how it handles.

    I would think it thicker diff fluid in front / rear would help with back flips. I try to avoid back flips as I tend to break things more often doing that. More when at beach at making sand ramp just right. My normal bought ramps don't have the right angle for back flips. But can do a front flip. Slamming on the breaks in air.





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    Iíve also been thinking of filling up my front and rear diff with thicker fluid the next time I tear it down. I found out itís so much easier to just take off the skid plate and then the bottom half of the bulkhead instead of tearing down the whole rear end, so if I just went out and got fluid, I wouldnít mind opening it up and dropping some in there.

    Any thickness ideas? Looking to go pretty stiff so... 100k? Maybe 200k?


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  18. #18
    RC Champion Acidic01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwinTurboV8 View Post
    Iíve also been thinking of filling up my front and rear diff with thicker fluid the next time I tear it down. I found out itís so much easier to just take off the skid plate and then the bottom half of the bulkhead instead of tearing down the whole rear end, so if I just went out and got fluid, I wouldnít mind opening it up and dropping some in there.

    Any thickness ideas? Looking to go pretty stiff so... 100k? Maybe 200k?


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    I'll have to try that tear down method.

    I have a stainless screw set to out in... So mine will be a full tear down and full bearing cleaning. As been about 2years since I repacked them.

    I do 200k perhaps even 500k if you like more locked diffs. They also tend to loosen up some over time as well.

    I'm thinking of just going right to 500k in mine. The diffs are not that much smaller than a xmaxx diffs.

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  19. #19
    RC Racer TwinTurboV8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acidic01 View Post
    I'll have to try that tear down method.

    I have a stainless screw set to out in... So mine will be a full tear down and full bearing cleaning. As been about 2years since I repacked them.

    I do 200k perhaps even 500k if you like more locked diffs. They also tend to loosen up some over time as well.

    I'm thinking of just going right to 500k in mine. The diffs are not that much smaller than a xmaxx diffs.

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    Maybe Iíll do 200k up front and 500k in the rear... Or Iíll just jump the gun and do 500k front and rear! Why not?


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  20. #20
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. olds97_lss's Avatar
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    When I ran a v1 revo, it flipped way easier than my 2.0 did at first. I was running 4S as a v1 with unwrapped trenchers. As a v2, I started with some t-maxx 3.3 tires that I wrapped and I ran 6S. It did not want to flip for the life of me. Minimal in-air control as well.

    Then I got a set of MT4 tires/wheels that I wrapped (had to exacto the hubs to fit) and I really liked those, but the weakened hex's blew out on me on the 3rd or 4th run.

    So, I went with trencher 3.8's wrapped. They were heavier than both previous tires and a lot larger OD than the t-maxx 3.3 tires. It would flip, but I had to really get on the throttle and hit a jump properly with 15/54 gearing and a 2200kv motor. The motor I was using was old (3 years on 4S ERBEv1) and getting weak (and I cooked my MXL-6S), so I got a max6 and a blx2050kv motor. Started with 18/54 and ended up with 20/54 gearing. It flips pretty easy now off most any jump.

    I'm not sure what I run in the front/rear diffs (stock, 50k or 100k, not sure anymore), but I do run 20M in the center. It's stiff at the start of a bash, but it does loosen up and will unload to the front tires if I really lean on it.

    The old trencher 3.8's wrapped are quite a bit lighter than the trencher X's belted.

    If I did say the X belteds are lighter than the EXT's I was wrong and apologize. The X's are little lighter the EXT's, but the X belteds are quite a bit heavier than the EXT's.

    From my chart:
    MX38: 16.089oz
    MX38 belted: 14.740oz

    Trencher: 13.400oz
    Trencher LP: 9.800oz
    Trencher X: 13.651oz
    Trencher X belted: 16.967oz

    Talons v2 EXT: 13.900oz

    I don't know the OD/width difference between EXT's and X belted's, but I do know that even with the EXT's wrapped being a bit heavier than my 3.8 trenchers, it did not flip as easily with the EXT's on it.

    Right before trying the EXT's, I was running the trenchers with 18/54 gearing. I increased the gearing to 20/54 to get some of my air control/flips back with EXT's. It helped quite a bit.

    I ended up going back to the trenchers though because of the lack of forward grip with the EXT's and I kept the 20/54 gearing. Probably why it's pretty easy to flip now.
    https://www.youtube.com/c/olds97lss

  21. #21
    RC Racer TwinTurboV8's Avatar
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    Gearing with 3.8 belted trenchers

    Quote Originally Posted by olds97_lss View Post
    When I ran a v1 revo, it flipped way easier than my 2.0 did at first. I was running 4S as a v1 with unwrapped trenchers. As a v2, I started with some t-maxx 3.3 tires that I wrapped and I ran 6S. It did not want to flip for the life of me. Minimal in-air control as well.

    Then I got a set of MT4 tires/wheels that I wrapped (had to exacto the hubs to fit) and I really liked those, but the weakened hex's blew out on me on the 3rd or 4th run.

    So, I went with trencher 3.8's wrapped. They were heavier than both previous tires and a lot larger OD than the t-maxx 3.3 tires. It would flip, but I had to really get on the throttle and hit a jump properly with 15/54 gearing and a 2200kv motor. The motor I was using was old (3 years on 4S ERBEv1) and getting weak (and I cooked my MXL-6S), so I got a max6 and a blx2050kv motor. Started with 18/54 and ended up with 20/54 gearing. It flips pretty easy now off most any jump.

    I'm not sure what I run in the front/rear diffs (stock, 50k or 100k, not sure anymore), but I do run 20M in the center. It's stiff at the start of a bash, but it does loosen up and will unload to the front tires if I really lean on it.

    The old trencher 3.8's wrapped are quite a bit lighter than the trencher X's belted.

    If I did say the X belteds are lighter than the EXT's I was wrong and apologize. The X's are little lighter the EXT's, but the X belteds are quite a bit heavier than the EXT's.

    From my chart:
    MX38: 16.089oz
    MX38 belted: 14.740oz

    Trencher: 13.400oz
    Trencher LP: 9.800oz
    Trencher X: 13.651oz
    Trencher X belted: 16.967oz

    Talons v2 EXT: 13.900oz

    I don't know the OD/width difference between EXT's and X belted's, but I do know that even with the EXT's wrapped being a bit heavier than my 3.8 trenchers, it did not flip as easily with the EXT's on it.

    Right before trying the EXT's, I was running the trenchers with 18/54 gearing. I increased the gearing to 20/54 to get some of my air control/flips back with EXT's. It helped quite a bit.

    I ended up going back to the trenchers though because of the lack of forward grip with the EXT's and I kept the 20/54 gearing. Probably why it's pretty easy to flip now.
    I donít have the Trencher X belteds, I have the new Trencher HP belteds.

    And wow, I would really love to upgrade to a more powerful motor and gear it up, but 1. I donít know what Iíd wanna use 2. Itís way out of my budget at the moment 3. I really have no reason to replace my current setup.

    My VXL-6s went into a thermal shutdown sometime in January I believe and I sent it to Traxxas. If they were gonna charge me, which they said they may, I was just gonna go to my LHS or order a hobby wing max8. But to my surprise they replaced it for free and Iíve been running clean for a while.

    Edit: Just noticed I can change my profile picture! Woohoo!

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    Last edited by TwinTurboV8; 04-06-2021 at 12:20 PM.
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  22. #22
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. olds97_lss's Avatar
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    I'd like to run a larger motor as well... but pretty limited on length since it runs into the rear/upper shock mount.
    https://www.youtube.com/c/olds97lss

  23. #23
    RC Qualifier Rocketzx1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by olds97_lss View Post
    I'd like to run a larger motor as well... but pretty limited on length since it runs into the rear/upper shock mount.
    You can always try and use the mounting holes meant for larger motors that will allow the motor to clear the rear shock mount.


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  24. #24
    RC Turnbuckle Jr. olds97_lss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocketzx1 View Post
    You can always try and use the mounting holes meant for larger motors that will allow the motor to clear the rear shock mount.


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    It won't clear my rear chassis brace I made, so I'll live with the smaller motor. I might get some lighter tires though, then I can gear it up a bit more.
    https://www.youtube.com/c/olds97lss

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